Marshall MK1 Pedal history lesson?

samzadgan

this is a question to anyone who can help...

I've seen a bundle of Marshall Bluesbreaker and Drivemaster pedals. I think they are Mk1, and it says "Made in England" on the back of the pedal...but unlike all the other listings on eBay and reverb the serial number is ink stamped onto the battery cover rather than the top sticker. Also the serial number suggests its made in 1998, and according to some internet wisdom Marshall moved production to Korea in 1994?

I'm just looking for someone to set me straight...are these the original MK1's?

the_jaffa

Definitely not an expert on these but my gut says they look far too clean to be originals. 

ICBM

Not sure, but it would be a piece of cake to print the Made In England stickers with a computer and a sheet of labels. Harder to convincingly stamp the serial numbers on them...

Why does it matter? They’re the same circuits. If they’re priced high on the basis of being UK-made, they’re too expensive anyway.

prlgmnr

Worth an extra 100-200 quid each because the battery covers haven't gone missing.

Anyway, I think the UK ones have some handwritten thingy inside and the circuit board is a particular colour distinct from that of the MIK ones. One is blueish-green, one is greenish-blue, I forget which is which.

Having said that, my brother has one, it does have a hand signature and the board is a different colour again.

samzadgan

ICBM said:

Not sure, but it would be a piece of cake to print the Made In England stickers with a computer and a sheet of labels. Harder to convincingly stamp the serial numbers on them...

Why does it matter? They’re the same circuits. If they’re priced high on the basis of being UK-made, they’re too expensive anyway.

it only matters because he's charging the price of the early UK ones...

prlgmnr said:

Worth an extra 100-200 quid each because the battery covers haven't gone missing.

Anyway, I think the UK ones have some handwritten thingy inside and the circuit board is a particular colour distinct from that of the MIK ones. One is blueish-green, one is greenish-blue, I forget which is which.

Having said that, my brother has one, it does have a hand signature and the board is a different colour again.

yeah I've noticed the way people are identifying these based on circuits inside. 

thanks for the info guys...

Sassafras

I guess it only matters if you're a collector.
They all sound the same within certain component tolerances.

thermionic

I'm a cynic, but those labels do look home made. Something about the shape, the font, and the way "Made in England" is tagged on to the end of the information about batteries and dc adapters, almost as an afterthought.

On the other hand, the barcode numbers match up with the labels on the boxes - which would be harder to fake convincingly.

Also, Marshall are known for using model numbers that have nothing to do with the year of manufacture (1974, 1958, 1962 etc.), so the 1998 could be a red herring.

ICBM

thermionic said:

I'm a cynic, but those labels do look home made. Something about the shape, the font, and the way "Made in England" is tagged on to the end of the information about batteries and dc adapters, almost as an afterthought.

They are the correct text. This is a genuine one...


 

thermionic said:

On the other hand, the barcode numbers match up with the labels on the boxes - which would be harder to fake convincingly.

Also, Marshall are known for using model numbers that have nothing to do with the year of manufacture (1974, 1958, 1962 etc.), so the 1998 could be a red herring.

By the time they were using that serial number format (1997 onwards) it’s the year.

The ‘19’ model numbers were actually a creation of Rose-Morris who were Marshall’s distributor in the 60s and 70s, and Marshall have very rarely used them since - only on a few cabinet models, that I can think of. 1998 in the Rose-Morris numbers is actually a Rickenbacker guitar!

If these are genuine then the only explanation is that Marshall didn't move production to Korea until at least 1998.

samzadgan

So...look like the mystery is solved...check this out...it’s a comment someone left on reverb...

“Well here's a mystery! A black box Marshall Blues Breaker pedal, boxed and with a hand written assurance from Jim Marshall himself that he would always use quality components and only make changes that would improve the quality and tone. I met Jim Marshall in the U.K. Makes sense to me. The big question I had, is, 'Had I bought an early first version pedal or the latter, supposedly less desirable higher gain model, possibly even made in Korea and not the U.K God forbid'. Well it was advertised as a Mark ii, so must be very Korean and tinny sounding right? But the vendor says, he's had a few and this one is the best sounding he has owned. Having a few counts, you see. Then to complicate matters, the item is bought - relatively inexpensively. Is it actually an early one or not? It has Made in England written on the box but also 1997. The confusion (and excitement) of it all. Well I open the case and pull everything out to start reading resistor values only to discover a JRC 072BD and the circuit labelling well out; as in resistors where caps are labelled. Nothing in this layout that I can match to the original Blues Breaker circuit or even a claimed second edition and I'm good at reading values and schematic. Well, let's plug it in. Certainly has that late parity feature (maybe it is an early one). I take a glance at Marshall's recommended setting suggestions and WHOA - it is fat and warm, but also does clean, bright, grit, you really can dime in what you actually want once you understand their suggestions. So is it a Mark i or Mark ii? Who knows, possibly neither, but we'll say Mark ii. Is is fat and warm and vintage sounding? Absolutely, if you bother to dial it in. Does it sound like an old original Blues Breaker? Surprisingly, YES! Do you prefer it to your K.O.T.? Yes So what's not to love? The Mark ii, if this is it - is delicious and highly recommended. Is it a keeper? Only time will tell, but let's put it this way, I have no regrets and it will get to mate with an original '65 Piggy Back Blackface Bandmaster with an early Zendrive as competition tomorrow and if it passes that test it will be teamed up with an old '69 Plexi with KT66's going through some vintage alnicos next time. I think we might keep this one ;-) NEWSFLASH: After pawing through acres of online rants concerning the breeding and minutiae nuances as regards Mark i and mark ii of the original Black Box Bluesbreaker pedal and further studying various schematics, here is the final word for you tone seekers of the 'Holy Grail' version. May I start by saying that the little colour banded resistor looking things in the C3, C4 designated slots ARE ACTUALLY CAPACITORS and stripe coded to read .01uF - leave them alone! The R1 value that people love is 27K and the R2 value is 33K and C3 should be 100pF (warmer, more bass). The creamier, warmer sounding , dare I say 'preferred chip' is the JRC072BD not the Texas instruments TL072 varietal . I'm please to add, my bargain pedal, sold as a mark ii has all of the above and sounded very good through the old '65 Bandmaster piggyback. Did order all the parts to mod, but nothing to do here. Good luck with your tonequest fellow warriors!”


i ended up passing on the pedals...didn’t feel it was worth selling my KOT and adding cash for those 2 pedals 

meltedbuzzbox

I bought a drive master for 27 quid not that long ago.
I suffer to think what's being asked for that one

ICBM

samzadgan said:

i ended up passing on the pedals...didn’t feel it was worth selling my KOT and adding cash for those 2 pedals 

And I thought the KOT was ridiculously overpriced...

samzadgan

ICBM said:

samzadgan said:

i ended up passing on the pedals...didn’t feel it was worth selling my KOT and adding cash for those 2 pedals 

And I thought the KOT was ridiculously overpriced...

Luckily I got t really cheap...I got it because the price gave me the option to try it out and flip it...but you know what, I believe the hype man. 

ICBM

samzadgan said:

Luckily I got t really cheap...I got it because the price gave me the option to try it out and flip it...but you know what, I believe the hype man. 

In that case keep it. Don't throw away the bargain by spending more on a couple of ludicrously-priced old pedals.

Those Marshall pedals should be sub-£100 no matter where they're made. They have poor switches and jacks, and apart from that contain at most about a tenner's worth of parts. The circuit is well-known and if you want the sound, buy a copy which will have both those things fixed (and be true bypass) and come in a sensible-sized casing...

Sassafras

/\ That's all true but you can't put a price on mojo, although it sounds like they've tried to.

springhead

Blimey, I never knew these were particularly desirable.  From reading the above and looking at Reverb it looks like mine is a Mk 1.  Can't remember when I bought it, was early 90's I think.  I used to run it into a JTM 45 and the resulting sound was pretty good!