adjusting action to eliminate buzz project guitar

Funkfingers

ICBM said:

Is there a shim in the neck pocket?

Good question. This might explain the fundamentally terrible geometric relationship between the neck, the body and the string path.



I would still like to see photographs of the complete guitar. Apart from anything else, it might explain this miraculous transformation.

February 24th - fixed/hardtail bridge

finest1 said:

March 3rd - six screw fulcrum vibrato.

finest1 said:

Maynehead

@Funkfingers lol if you read his posts you will realise that the first guitar is on hold pending new springs and in the meantime he’s started work on a different guitar!

sweepy

Have you checked the neck with a fret rocker tool ?

Funkfingers

I tried reading through both off the OP's Discussions about the guitar bridge saddles set extremely high.

In my opinion, this is the result of something fundamentally wrong with another part of the guitar(s).

Attempting to come up with a solution based on a handful of close-up photographs is the guitar tech's equivalent of the proverbial blind men describing an elephant.

Maynehead

finest1 said

relief set at 0.12

I really hope this is a typo!!

You should be aiming for 0.012” or 0.3mm.

sweepy

Your profile says London but whereabouts are you, might be easier if one of us “locals” had a look and would probably be able to advise more usefully

finest1

Maynehead said:

finest1 said

relief set at 0.12

I really hope this is a typo!!

You should be aiming for 0.012” or 0.3mm.

yes that's what I meant !

finest1

sweepy said:

Your profile says London but whereabouts are you, might be easier if one of us “locals” had a look and would probably be able to advise more usefully

i'm in North london

finest1

update:

fender telecaster project: no shim in neck pocket

strat project: no shim in neck pocket

ICBM

finest1 said:

update:

fender telecaster project: no shim in neck pocket

strat project: no shim in neck pocket

In that case it sounds like either the frets are uneven, or - please don't take this as insulting your intelligence! - you may be unaware of what is a 'normal' amount of buzz on an electric guitar, especially if you play quite hard. Most Fender guitars are quite consistently made and it would be very unusual to find one where the bridge saddles needed to be that high otherwise.

The simplest way forward to get it more acceptable for now, before you get into fret dressing etc, is to 'reverse shim' the necks with a thin shim at the *outer* end of the pocket. This isn't normally a great idea and can make the guitar feel odd if it's too thick, but for this a very thin one will probably work - the shim thickness has a much larger effect on the action because of the length of the neck relative to that of the pocket.

Maynehead

I'm also beginning to suspect whether it's a neck issue, either twisted, humped or "ski-ramped". This could explain why the previous owner bailed out on them and sold them on, presumably for a bargain price.

Did you ever get a chance to sight down the neck to check for irregularities like I suggested previously? If you have the neck off it'll be even easier to spot any.

finest1

ICBM said:

finest1 said:

update:

fender telecaster project: no shim in neck pocket

strat project: no shim in neck pocket

In that case it sounds like either the frets are uneven, or - please don't take this as insulting your intelligence! - you may be unaware of what is a 'normal' amount of buzz on an electric guitar, especially if you play quite hard. Most Fender guitars are quite consistently made and it would be very unusual to find one where the bridge saddles needed to be that high otherwise.

The simplest way forward to get it more acceptable for now, before you get into fret dressing etc, is to 'reverse shim' the necks with a thin shim at the *outer* end of the pocket. This isn't normally a great idea and can make the guitar feel odd if it's too thick, but for this a very thin one will probably work - the shim thickness has a much larger effect on the action because of the length of the neck relative to that of the pocket.

yes, I do accept that there could be some slight buzzing, but this is not slight (low E ) it buzzes or rattles. the note sounds but it buzzes. my other guitars don't buzz (which is my reference point)

neck shim: im ahead of you, I been reading up on neck shims today, boy!! what a can of worms that is!!, hence why I'm not going to start that debate. it was interesting to note that user feedback is that fender do use some kind of shim, but on these ones no. maybe its the MIM models, maybe the US strats come with shims. I've never had to shim my guitars. if they play good, I tend to keep them at the same set up. yes I may experiment adjusting action, but I rarely do full on set ups. but its all an experience.

what shims do you use?

finest1

Maynehead said:

I'm also beginning to suspect whether it's a neck issue, either twisted, humped or "ski-ramped". This could explain why the previous owner bailed out on them and sold them on, presumably for a bargain price.

Did you ever get a chance to sight down the neck to check for irregularities like I suggested previously? If you have the neck off it'll be even easier to spot any.

the telecaster project:
yes I sighted the best I could, it looked and felt solid and genuine, so It wasnt' a fake, however it just had a lot of buzzing in the middle and upper. as it was a project guitar, I knew what I was getting into. that was the risk. I didn't pay a lot for it either. I personally think the seller panicked and he put it together but couldn't get it to play properly.

the strat project:

yes the guitar was in very good condition, it played and felt well. I went for this particular one as it was a rare colour. it needed cleaning and I wanted to upgrade it. that's why I'm baffled that the set up is all over the place as I only changed the string gauge!

but the answer to your question is that I don't know if there any defects. I've got a true straight edge and it hasn't highlighted any issues when I've rested it on the neck. the necks on both guitars "feel" right. I actually have 2 other strats that are set up well and play well, so that's the reference point I have.

ICBM

finest1 said:

what shims do you use?

I use thin card, fibreboard or wood veneer depending on the thickness I need. For a reverse shim of the sort of thickness you need here, I would start with a piece of business card.

I am in the camp that does not believe the shim material affects the tone in any way, and that the 'full length tapered wooden wedge' type shims are pointless and may not even sound as good as a simple one across the end.

prowla

It seemed to me, looking at the pictures, that the saddle heights were not following the fingerboard relief - not sure if it's an optical illusion.

Is the truss rod adjusted right? That's the thing to do before shims, saddles, etc.

NeilMcG

You've got to get a straight-edge on that neck to see what is going on with it, it's just guesswork at the moment.

finest1

ICBM said:

finest1 said:

what shims do you use?

I use thin card, fibreboard or wood veneer depending on the thickness I need. For a reverse shim of the sort of thickness you need here, I would start with a piece of business card.

I am in the camp that does not believe the shim material affects the tone in any way, and that the 'full length tapered wooden wedge' type shims are pointless and may not even sound as good as a simple one across the end.

mmm this is why I didn't want to open the debate! im on the other side of the coin (after reading countless articles for both full tapered vs half tapered, vs shims) I think the neck needs to be flushed contact with the body. however I also think that any shim that doesn't cause the neck heel to "gap" should work. 


when you use the business card or the veneer, did you experience this gapping?

ICBM

finest1 said:

im on the other side of the coin (after reading countless articles for both full tapered vs half tapered, vs shims) I think the neck needs to be flushed contact with the body.

Why do you think the neck has to be in ‘flushed’ contact with the body? Have you actually tried them for yourself? If not, don’t believe everything you read.

Thousands of great vintage Fenders were fitted with simple shims across the end, and they seem to sound ok...

What do you mean by ‘gapping’? A space in the middle of the neck pocket? That's inevitable with any shim. It makes no difference as long as there's enough friction area to stop the neck moving about.

Maynehead

Did you know that premium American strats come with the “gapping” as standard feature? They call it micro tilt, but it’s bascally a single adjustable screw acting as a shim. Yes, the whole neck is resting on the head of a screw, so I don’t think a strip of card is anything to worry about!

There are a lot of very experienced people on this forum, and their advice is usually based on years of first hand experience, not things they once read on the internet. You could do a lot worse than to give their suggestions a try.

finest1

hi all,

I would like to give you an update:

I tried the shim idea as advised above. yes it brought the fretboard closer to the strings, but still my saddles were high and loads of dead spots, choking etc.

I thought it might be a good idea to level the frets. one of the first tasks is to use a notched straight edge to get the fingerboard dead straight. well, I couldn't get it straight.  from frets 12 onwards, was perfectly flat, but 6th to 10 had a gap, and also first fret. I did a video to demonstrate what I'm talking about. I've obviously stopped there. I obviously tried tightening the truss rod and that didn't work as the 12th fret onwards started showing gaps. what you see on the video is the best I can get it.

should the fingerboard be totally flat? I've read some articles on a telecaster forum saying to get it as flat as possible and as long as you have enough frets, levelling will work.

I'll throw that out there for views and opinions

https://youtu.be/Z-gltGYz8-4