Obvious amp question for pub gigs.

AlexO

I've recently joined a new covers band after years of playing in original bands where I've always had the luxury of sound engineers mic my amps up for me.

With the new band I'm a bit worried my amp won't be loud enough or more it will be straight into break up. 

It's a Fender 65 Princeton. It's fine in practice but has anyone used one in a noisy pub?

I need to be able to play clean(ish) on some songs .

Do I need a bigger amp? If so which one? I like Fender tones and run about 7 -10 pedals.

Or

Can I Mic it up and put it the singers PA?

monquixote

For pub rock you will find it's going to be running flat out and even then might not be loud enough.

See if you can mic it up.

I that's not an option grab a cheap Fender HRD or Peavey Classic  50.

Alnico

Hot Rod Deluxe all day long.

£350 will get you a MK III although the MK II is actually better *IF* you get it seen by a tech and the volume control replaced with something sensible.

MK III has a black panel, MK II has a chrome top panel and is usually around the same rough used price as a MK III.

As a side note, the new Celestion V type speaker works so well in this amp it's silly.

If you see one come up at a reasonable price it's a great upgrade that takes minutes to fit.

bbill335

If you get a heavy, efficient ceramic speaker you’ll get more from your Princeton. Probably cheaper than a new amp so worth a go if you ask me!

ICBM

Get a Princeton 65.











That's a 65W solid-state amp with a 12" speaker, by the way... and it *will* be loud enough. Typically around £150 second hand.

pintspiller

Get a Hiwatt stack if you have issues with volume

Caffeine_Vampire

A 22 watt Princeton won’t be loud enough. If you’re running pedals you just need any loud amp with headroom. If I’m not going to mic my amp I wouldn’t take anything that puts out less than 40 (Tube) Watts. Any cheap amp will suffice, I wouldn’t be worried about brand names if I were you. 

newi123

I'll be gigging my 68 princeton tonight. Changed to an eminence rajun cajun speaker which is a go to mod to give it s bit of extra headroom.

I use a sennheiser 906 (I think) which is flat and dangles easily through the amp handle. It goes through the pa (basic vocal 12 tops) to give a bit of spread. Sounds great.

p90fool

I gigged my Princeton in exactly the same way as @newi123 including the Ragin' Cajun (which I still have if you're after one). 

When depping with bands with an unknown PA I miked mine up through a cheap floor wedge, which not only gives you a good stage spread but it means you can run the Princeton at its exact sweet spot volume-wise, then use the wedge for overall volume level.

Voxman

Just a thought but might a clean boost or EQ pedal help ... these should still keep your tone clean but could give you a boost of at least 3db or more depending on unit. A 3db boost would be broadly equivalent to doubling your amp wattage.  Some pedals like the BBE Boosts Grand can give a boost up to 20db but at full tilt through the front end (unless you put it in an fx loop which I don't think your amp has) it will add gain distortion. But you should still be able to get a good clean boost at midway settings.

ICBM

Voxman said:

Just a thought but might a clean boost or EQ pedal help ... these should still keep your tone clean but could give you a boost of at least 3db or more depending on unit. A 3db boost would be broadly equivalent to doubling your amp wattage.

Sorry, but it won't - that's only true if the power stage has enough headroom to accept it without any overdrive or compression, which is unlikely to be the case with a Princeton at gig volume. If anything, boosting the input will reduce headroom if the amp is already close to overdrive, and increase compression.

There is no substitute for more *actual* power if you need clean headroom, although a much more efficient speaker will help a fair bit, if the present one isn't.

Voxman

ICBM said:

Voxman said:

Just a thought but might a clean boost or EQ pedal help ... these should still keep your tone clean but could give you a boost of at least 3db or more depending on unit. A 3db boost would be broadly equivalent to doubling your amp wattage.

Sorry, but it won't - that's only true if the power stage has enough headroom to accept it without any overdrive or compression, which is unlikely to be the case with a Princeton at gig volume. If anything, boosting the input will reduce headroom if the amp is already close to overdrive, and increase compression.

There is no substitute for more *actual* power if you need clean headroom, although a much more efficient speaker will help a fair bit, if the present one isn't.

Understood...it was just a thought.  

AlexO

Thanks for the suggestions and advice, such a great place this forum for help with these sort of things. 

skaguitar

I've gigged a princeton in a 9 piece ska band in venues bigger than a pub.. mic'd up it stood it's ground no problem and I need a clean sound... so if you mic it up it'll be fine

Clecko

Noticed someone selling a Peavey Classic 50 1x15 on here yesterday. £250 for loads of loud clean.

monquixote

The only thing I'd be concerned about is the 15.

Not sure how that's going to sound especially if you are used to a Princeton!

Cirrus

I found pub gigs require the most volume from the backline - basically, your amp needs to be loud enough to sound balanced alongside the drum kit if you're listening at the other side of the room.

stratman3142

Alnico said:

Hot Rod Deluxe all day long...

...As a side note, the new Celestion V type speaker works so well in this amp it's silly.

If you see one come up at a reasonable price it's a great upgrade that takes minutes to fit.

I put a Celestion V type in my HRD III and it was a big improvement over the stock speaker, and a much better match than a V30 which I tried first.

 It took me more than a few minutes to change speakers because it's necessary to take out the entire amp section to do it.  A bit of a pain, but not too hard.

I've now got an HRD IV which comes with a Celestion A type as stock and I like it as it is.

AlexO

Clecko said:

Noticed someone selling a Peavey Classic 50 1x15 on here yesterday. £250 for loads of loud clean.

I did notice that....

crunchman

I would be tempted to use the Princeton, and mic it into the PA if it needs reinforcing.  It does depend on the layout of the venues you are playing, but just going through backline can cause problems with spread of sound.  People at the front near your amp can get too much, while people elsewhere in the room might not hear it at all.  If you mic it into the PA, you should get a much more even spread through the room for all the punters to hear clearly.

A Princeton should be enough to hear yourself on stage with.  If your drummer is too loud for that, you probably won't get invited back the way the noise police are these days.

Or get a second Princeton and run stereo. Two of them will be enough, and you will get a much better spread of sound.  You also aren't completely stuffed if one of them dies.

kt66

In them old old days of the 80s, at pub gigs the only mic was held by the singer, maybe, very occasionally the bass drum was mic'd up - a Vox AC15 was ample, now every Pub seems to have a 10k PA and mic everything up, even guitar amps, and are then far too loud for the venue,

Damn those big PAs
Damn those subwoofers