Joe Rogan VS Mike Tyson

Freebird

monquixote said:

I didn't watch it at the time because I have a bit of a problem with how much people idolise a convicted rapist.

That said I've heard a few people say it's remarkable what a different person he is since his fighting days so I'm considering giving it a watch.

It's the unconvicted rapists you should be weary of, you don't know who they are.

Caffeine_Vampire

I’ve never seen anyone so desperate for redemption and so utterly capable of denying it to himself. I wish him luck. 

octatonic

I'm all for redemption but I also wouldn't want him dating my sister.

ourmaninthenorth

octatonic said:

I'm all for redemption but I also wouldn't want him dating my sister.

Either of my sisters would knock the fook out of him...

funkyfraz

TTBZ said:

Not listened to this one yet but the most recent David Lee Roth podcast is great.

I couldn't listen to it longer than ten minutes. 

monquixote

Holy shit he actually had a pet tiger!

Caffeine_Vampire

monquixote said:

Holy shit he actually had a pet tiger!

I believe he had two. His autobiography is a good read. 

Snap

WiresDreamDisasters said:

Snap said:

There is something very tragic about Tyson. Immense boxing talent, and quite a bright man, but his life has been a series of disasters and missed opportunities. As soon as Cus D'Amato died, he was lost. Everything about his life went down the toilet after that and he lost the plot in just about every way.

In his prime, he was a truly phenomenal boxer. Monstrously powerful and fast. His early fights were (for a boxing fan) captivating. Hadn't seen that sort of explosive relentless power since Foreman. Foreman in his prime, pre Rumble in The Jungle is something to see too. His demolition of Frazier and Norton: wow.

You have to understand that he was being trained since he was something like 13. Prior to that he had an alcoholic mother, he was into street crime and drugs, and was on a truly fucked path to hell. Boxing saved his life in many ways, and Cus D'Amato pulled him out of the hole he was in.

He talks about how he was trained in the interview - hypnosis and dehumanization.

Tragic yes. But also there is a ray of light and hopefulness there.

I have to understand?? Could you try a bit harder, I don't feel quite patronised enough, pmsl.

I do understand, I know a lot about Mr Tyson. Followed his career from the start, so pretty versed in his background and all that.

There's a video, can't remember the name, but it was released in the late 80s I think, where Tyson is going through all the heavyweight champions since Jack Johnson I think, and the fella has an encyclopaedic knowledge of his sport. Really interesting film.

I remember watching his early fights, before he beat Berbick for his first title, and seeing this short stocky no frills kid in amongst the razz of 80s boxing was something very raw. He was a real change for sure. Sort of like a combination of Jack Dempsey, Rocky Marciano with a bit of Floyd Patterson's peekaboo style thrown in. Ace.

WiresDreamDisasters

Way to miss my point. Sorry I triggered you.

munckee

Tyson for all his myth lost to all of his best opponents.  He beat Holmes who was as washed up as Ali was when Holmes beat him.  Had a decent win against unbeaten Michael Spinks but he was tiny and hadn't really defeated any heavyweights bar the washed up Holmes.

Decent wins against bonecrusher smith and pinklon thomas, ruddock and bruno but none of them were major stars (apart from Bruno over here) Tyson's defining fights were Douglas, Holyfield and Lewis and he lost them all.

He is remembered for clearing the division up and at a very young age but purely as an all time top heavywight he is way over rated.

Caffeine_Vampire

munckee said:

Tyson for all his myth lost to all of his best opponents.  He beat Holmes who was as washed up as Ali was when Holmes beat him.  Had a decent win against unbeaten Michael Spinks but he was tiny and hadn't really defeated any heavyweights bar the washed up Holmes.

Decent wins against bonecrusher smith and pinklon thomas, ruddock and bruno but none of them were major stars (apart from Bruno over here) Tyson's defining fights were Douglas, Holyfield and Lewis and he lost them all.

He is remembered for clearing the division up and at a very young age but purely as an all time top heavywight he is way over rated.

Disagree. While the mid/late 80’s didn’t exactly produce the best of competition, you can only fight who’s out there. Douglas wasn’t a defining fight and Tyson technically knocked him out first and would have won if the ref hadn’t started the count late. Holyfield legitimately won the first fight, no argument there and Tyson screwed the second one (although Holyfield was happy enough to make it a Street fight). The Lewis fight came way too late in his career. Peak Tyson would have been competitive with any heavyweight in history. 

Caffeine_Vampire

As a side note, this thread is seriously making me want to get back on the ring at 44!

munckee

Caffeine_Vampire said:

munckee said:

Tyson for all his myth lost to all of his best opponents.  He beat Holmes who was as washed up as Ali was when Holmes beat him.  Had a decent win against unbeaten Michael Spinks but he was tiny and hadn't really defeated any heavyweights bar the washed up Holmes.

Decent wins against bonecrusher smith and pinklon thomas, ruddock and bruno but none of them were major stars (apart from Bruno over here) Tyson's defining fights were Douglas, Holyfield and Lewis and he lost them all.

He is remembered for clearing the division up and at a very young age but purely as an all time top heavywight he is way over rated.

Disagree. While the mid/late 80’s didn’t exactly produce the best of competition, you can only fight who’s out there. Douglas wasn’t a defining fight and Tyson technically knocked him out first and would have won if the ref hadn’t started the count late. Holyfield legitimately won the first fight, no argument there and Tyson screwed the second one (although Holyfield was happy enough to make it a Street fight). The Lewis fight came way too late in his career. Peak Tyson would have been competitive with any heavyweight in history. 

I can't see Tyson making a dent on foreman or beating frazier or ali.  He would have had a punchers chance of course but they fought numerous punchers each.  Frazier would have been the closest fight but I think he was a better boxer than tyson.  I think Vitali Klitschko would have dealt with him too.  Don't know about the current crop, I think heavy weights are starting to leave him behind size wise.

cpcompany

Caffeine_Vampire said:

munckee said:

Tyson for all his myth lost to all of his best opponents.  He beat Holmes who was as washed up as Ali was when Holmes beat him.  Had a decent win against unbeaten Michael Spinks but he was tiny and hadn't really defeated any heavyweights bar the washed up Holmes.

Decent wins against bonecrusher smith and pinklon thomas, ruddock and bruno but none of them were major stars (apart from Bruno over here) Tyson's defining fights were Douglas, Holyfield and Lewis and he lost them all.

He is remembered for clearing the division up and at a very young age but purely as an all time top heavywight he is way over rated.

Disagree. While the mid/late 80’s didn’t exactly produce the best of competition, you can only fight who’s out there. Douglas wasn’t a defining fight and Tyson technically knocked him out first and would have won if the ref hadn’t started the count late. Holyfield legitimately won the first fight, no argument there and Tyson screwed the second one (although Holyfield was happy enough to make it a Street fight). The Lewis fight came way too late in his career. Peak Tyson would have been competitive with any heavyweight in history. 

The referee started the count against Douglas late , mainly as Tyson wasn’t retreating to his corner .  Douglas was listening to the refs count, he was hardly out of it. 

Tyson was beaten comfortably in the Douglas fight. 

RandallFlagg

I bet the big Jessy couldn't get through Hot Ones. Big la la.

Caffeine_Vampire

@munckee I think, to be fair to the guy, Tyson always belonged to that older era of fighter. It’s arguable that he and Holyfield were the last of the old guard. For my money, he’d have beaten Johnson, Dempsy, Marciano, Patterson, Liston,  Foreman & Norton, lost to Ali, Holmes & Louis and drew with Fraser. Not a comprehensive list but you get the idea. 

Snap

WiresDreamDisasters said:

Way to miss my point. Sorry I triggered you.

It wasn't your point, it was the apparent patronising stance that "triggered" me. Anyway, forget it, not a problem.

munckee

Caffeine_Vampire said:

@munckee I think, to be fair to the guy, Tyson always belonged to that older era of fighter. It’s arguable that he and Holyfield were the last of the old guard. For my money, he’d have beaten Johnson, Dempsy, Marciano, Patterson, Liston,  Foreman & Norton, lost to Ali, Holmes & Louis and drew with Fraser. Not a comprehensive list but you get the idea. 

I don't know johnson, dempsey etc enough to know.  I think Norton would have had a good chance of beating him although he could have also been blown away in a round.  I think foreman would have had the easiest time against tyson, a bigger bully.

Snap

Caffeine_Vampire said:

As a side note, this thread is seriously making me want to get back on the ring at 44!

Don't knock it mate, I'm a bit older and did 12 rounds on the bags this morning! Mind you, I don't fancy getting hit much these days, that's for sure.

I think he'd have coped well in the 70s 80s heavyweight era. Out of your list I think the ones that would give a prime Tyson difficulty would be Ali, Frazier and maybe Foreman (the 1973 version).

the older greats - difficult to compare for me. I think he'd have done Patterson in a round. Marciano? Dunno, that would have been something to see.

Imagine Frazier v Tyson though. That would be some contest. One of the most brutal heavyweight fights I have seen was Frazier v Foreman, where Foreman put Frazier down 5 times (or was it 6?) and just destroyed him. Then he tried it with Ali and came unstuck - another brutal fight. Brings a lump to your throat that one as he flicks off the ropes in round 7......

Caffeine_Vampire

@Snap I went back to my old fight gym at 40. Still had the punch but the stamina was long gone. I do miss it but I’m concerned about damaging my hands for playing.