Larrivee vs Martin

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 21970
    @ICBM what's the worst that can happen to the electrics?
    Not much, other than rusty strings, hardware and frets. The necks might move a bit, but you should be able to fix that with the truss rods. In really extreme cases you can get finish cracking, but I doubt PRS finishes are thick and hard enough for that to happen - it mainly affects things with super-hard polyester.

    In my experience/opinion excess humidity can also make guitars - including electrics - sound dull too, but I'm not sure how quantifiable that is.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • Well, the humidity has thus far dropped from 71 to 69 % but it's only been a little while. 
    The room is adjacent to the bathroom which can get quite moist! 
    Will give it some time and see if the number drops some more. 
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 21970
    Well, the humidity has thus far dropped from 71 to 69 % but it's only been a little while. 
    The room is adjacent to the bathroom which can get quite moist!
    Do you have an extractor fan for the bathroom? If not, it would be a good idea to fit one, either a fast one which comes on with the lights and a time delay when they're turned off, or a slow one which runs continuously. The last thing you want is steam from the bathroom filling up the rest of the house.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • We do have an extractor, yeah :)

    Another factor to consider is that the hygrometer itself is guff. 
    I left it near a hot running tap for 30s and it went from 68% to 76% (with a lag). I need to figure out how to calibrate it.
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  • richardhomerrichardhomer Frets: 12688
    edited December 2016
    ICBM said:
    Don't bother - if the room humidity is constant at 64-70% then the inside of the cases will be too, after a matter of hours at most. They aren't airtight, or even close to it for PRS cases.
    Spot on - the case may prevent rapid changes but it is not hermetically sealed.

    Two things tend to happen to guitars which are too wet 1) The top bellies more than it is supposed to, which will raise the action. 2) They tend to sound 'dead'.

    It might be worth considering a proper dehumidifier.
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  • Recommendations for a proper one (one that can regulate?) much appreciated! I'll look later when I get back.
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  • 70% is a very high  humidity level inside a house
    tell me more about the room
    is it a loft-room?
    Does it go through cycles of cold and heat during the day?
    Upstairs?
    Any damp walls?

    If it's been that humid when it's been frosty outside, and the heating's on, I'd say you might have penetrating damp, I can't see  the odd blast from a bathroom  keeping the RH that high

    Do you dry clothes in or near it?
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  • Well I don't know about that room but we had somebody check our kitchen not long back and that was fine. 
    Might be a dodgy hygrometer - I might buy another or calibrate first.
    It's just a normal room, heating on twice a day. Radiator at the other side.
    Hygrometer and guitars are beside the window which does get a touch of condensation.
    No damp to speak of.  

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  • where have you located the hygrometer?
    put it in a similar place to the guitars

    e.g. mine hang on the wall, so I put one on a book shelf  at the same height on an inner wall, and one on a desk  3 feet off the ground near the guitars hanging on the outer wall

    If you put the meter near the floor or ceiling, or a windowsill or  hang it on the wall, you won't get an accurate reading
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  • It's right beside the guitars, which are right next to the window :)
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  • try it  away from the window - just in case that's a funny spot
    in a water-tight house, with the heating on when frosty outside, you should be getting RH below 35%
    So I'd wonder if you have a bit of damp getting in to the house
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  • you don't use calor gas heaters in the house?
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  • LewyLewy Frets: 203
    edited December 2016

    in a water-tight house, with the heating on when frosty outside, you should be getting RH below 35%
    I wish....I've never had lower than around 55% RH in any conditions anywhere I've ever lived. Normally it's up above 60% if left unchecked.

    I must have a very humid lifestyle....
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  • thomasross20thomasross20 Frets: 2717
    edited December 2016
    No calor gas heater.

    I just opened the window and it went from 70% to 64%. Edit - now it's at 60%. Wtf. 

    I'll leave it a bit and place it at the other side of the room.
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  • Is there a vent on the window?
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  • Yeah but I keep it closed..
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  • My thinking was the vent would let moisture in but maybe I'm trapping it instead.
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  • Maybe I'll buy a little one. 
    Is there a decent dehumidifier you guys might recommend? 
    you should never need a dehumidifier to look after your guitars in the UK, unless there is seriously something  unusual with the room (i.e. damp cellar,  leaky roof,  full of tropical fishtanks,  used as a kitchen, used to dry clothes)

    RH  in a UK house is typically  based on what it is outside, plus the effects of central heating (CH) and living (breathing, cooking,  washing, etc). In the UK, we almost always want to  increase indoor temp above outdoor temp,  or  throw open all the windows. Few use air con to chill the air.

    Roughly, raising  air temp by 20C doubles  the water it can hold, so if it's 50% RH outside,  at 5C, and you take that air and heat it to 25C, it will be 25% RH

    In real terms this means that in the  summer, with the windows open, RH will be similar to outside, usually 45-55%. It rarely goes past 60% in the UK. In Florida or Japan it is a different story
    In  the UK in the winter,  with the heating on, RH indoors is usually 32%-35%, rarely more than 30%
    On cold dry days, outdoors air is very cold and dry already, heat that air and  get it indoors, and  even with breathing and  cooking, UK indoors RH can be 27% or less on a snowy day. Offices  and hotels are very bad for this
    In the spring an autumn, indoors air is often 35% or 37% in houses I've lived in

    Air con dries the air in the reverse way: it  cools air, and the water falls out of it, then adds the air back to the room.
    Heavily airconditioned rooms can get too dry for guitars in the summer. More advanced air con adds moisture back into the air separately.
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  • Good thread, it is making me think I should at least know what the humidity is in my house.

    Our double bass player has the opposite problem; his (circa 1860) bass dries out in winter so he has to put a wet rubber sausage thingy in his F hole(!). He likes to keep his house humid. I wouldn't lend him a paperback book. :)
    My band: Hedge Gods
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  • My room is around 60-65 all winter. We do put damp clothes in there on occasion but even without it's rare for it to be below 55-60
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  • LewyLewy Frets: 203
    edited December 2016
    BRISTOL86 said:
    My room is around 60-65 all winter. We do put damp clothes in there on occasion but even without it's rare for it to be below 55-60
    I think this is plenty of people's experience. I  can only think of a few days so far this winter that have been particularly cold and dry...mostly they've been kind of damp and really not that cold....the CH has only needed to go on for an hour or so a day max over a 8-12 week period after which it's not on for the rest of the year pretty much.

    Humidity in the house north of 55% the whole time. No way I'd be able to properly look after my good acoustics without a dehumidifier and very good cases, which the guitars live in when I'm not playing them. I use these to ensure the cases are providing suitable protection: http://www.planetwaves.com/pwhumiditrak.page?sid=8b8529dc-67ad-427b-b73d-6834da5391a1
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  • davewwdaveww Frets: 140
    edited January 2
    I got myself an HTC-1 and the humidity has stayed at around 40-45% throughout the couple of months I've had it.  Can't vouch for its accuracy but it seems accurate at recording the temperature.
    Life aint so easy when you're a ghetto child
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  • thomasross20thomasross20 Frets: 2717
    Going to try and calibrate this thing this week and get another for reference. Willing to splash a couple hundred on a proper dehumidifier in order to protect the room and guitars.
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  • LewyLewy Frets: 203
    Going to try and calibrate this thing this week and get another for reference. Willing to splash a couple hundred on a proper dehumidifier in order to protect the room and guitars.
    I have an older version of this one, which does a good job:

    http://www.appliancesdirect.co.uk/p/cd20le/electriq-cd20le-dehumidifier?refsource=Apadwords&gclid=CM-ExOHitNECFYwy0wodgj8Irg
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  • thomasross20thomasross20 Frets: 2717
    How noisy is it (if noisy, do you turn it off at night?) and does it make a noticeable difference in energy bills? 

    I'm getting a loan of one off a guy at work for a week so will see how it does. No point spending thousands on guitars and skimping on something like a dehumidifier!
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  • Moe_ZambeekMoe_Zambeek Frets: 1693
    Have you tried opening the window vent yet?
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  • thomasross20thomasross20 Frets: 2717
    Yeah I did that. Didn't make any difference :(
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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 2619
    try testing some other rooms in the house, to see if that room is damper than the others
    if it is, I'd be looking for leaks first (pipes or rain getting in)
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  • BRISTOL86BRISTOL86 Frets: 288
    Lewy said:
    BRISTOL86 said:
    My room is around 60-65 all winter. We do put damp clothes in there on occasion but even without it's rare for it to be below 55-60
    I think this is plenty of people's experience. I  can only think of a few days so far this winter that have been particularly cold and dry...mostly they've been kind of damp and really not that cold....the CH has only needed to go on for an hour or so a day max over a 8-12 week period after which it's not on for the rest of the year pretty much.

    Humidity in the house north of 55% the whole time. No way I'd be able to properly look after my good acoustics without a dehumidifier and very good cases, which the guitars live in when I'm not playing them. I use these to ensure the cases are providing suitable protection: http://www.planetwaves.com/pwhumiditrak.page?sid=8b8529dc-67ad-427b-b73d-6834da5391a1
    I thought 40-60% was considered the happy zone? If it's 55ish year round then you should be ok without dehumidification shouldn't you? 

    I use the cheapy room dehumidifiers that collect moisture and just move my acoustic into another room anytime there's washing drying in that room. 
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  • LewyLewy Frets: 203
    BRISTOL86 said:
    Lewy said:
    BRISTOL86 said:
    My room is around 60-65 all winter. We do put damp clothes in there on occasion but even without it's rare for it to be below 55-60
    I think this is plenty of people's experience. I  can only think of a few days so far this winter that have been particularly cold and dry...mostly they've been kind of damp and really not that cold....the CH has only needed to go on for an hour or so a day max over a 8-12 week period after which it's not on for the rest of the year pretty much.

    Humidity in the house north of 55% the whole time. No way I'd be able to properly look after my good acoustics without a dehumidifier and very good cases, which the guitars live in when I'm not playing them. I use these to ensure the cases are providing suitable protection: http://www.planetwaves.com/pwhumiditrak.page?sid=8b8529dc-67ad-427b-b73d-6834da5391a1
    I thought 40-60% was considered the happy zone? If it's 55ish year round then you should be ok without dehumidification shouldn't you? 

    I use the cheapy room dehumidifiers that collect moisture and just move my acoustic into another room anytime there's washing drying in that room. 
    In my experience the zone within which you are avoiding damage is broader than the zone where my guitars sound and play their best. I can hear/feel a difference between 45% and 55% and definitely 60% where unchecked humidity would gravitate for a lot of the year. So I keep the guitars as close to 45% as I can because that's how I like them, even if they wouldn't be at risk at higher humidity. 

    My house isn't a leaking pile of damp either ... I just happen to gravitate towards putting on a jumper rather than running the CH all year. 
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