Show Us Your PA!

koneguitarist

Yes, that's what made me buy the 10's, vocals sound so much better with the 10's. And if you need it add the 15" sub in and it's far superior sound IMHO. All my YouTube vids are just the 10's on their own. This weekend I played to quite a few hundred people outdoors, and a few people commented on quality of sound.

Phil_aka_Pip

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb376/musophilr/RealityCheck_zps3910de20.jpg

Phil_aka_Pip

just as well we all know that PA stands for Public Address (system) not Prince Albert ...

maltingsaudio

Phil_aka_Pip said:

just as well we all know that PA stands for Public Address (system) not Prince Albert ...

But it should be regarded as sound re inforcement

koneguitarist

maltingsaudio said:

Phil_aka_Pip said:

just as well we all know that PA stands for Public Address (system) not Prince Albert ...

But it should be regarded as sound re inforcement

Exactly, reinforce the sound you have with it, not create a sound that you don't naturally have.

citizen68

@koneguitarist Cheers!

moz91

A&H MixWiz 16:2 (mk3)
HK Linear FA115 Tops (Active, 1200w per side)
HK Linear 18Subs (Passive - powered by 1200w/pc @4ohms)
Studiomaster 3500ax Power Amp for subs (Soon to be a macrotech 5000 )
DBX Driverack PA+

Can trim it down to Just tops or 1 bin for smaller stuff, and borrow in an extra pair of bins for the really big stuff. Never needed any extra reinforcement on top!

All bog standard Mics;Beta 57 & 58's, AKG drum mics.
Sounds like a lot but the desk , dbx, amp and iem's area all hardwired; the whole lot can be loaded, up and ready to use in less than ten mins!

Monitors; we're all on IEM's, but we've a couple of Wharfedale powered wedges just incase!

ICBM

koneguitarist said:

Yes, that's what made me buy the 10's, vocals sound so much better with the 10's. And if you need it add the 15" sub in and it's far superior sound IMHO.

Completely agree. Typical 15" + horn cabs are the wrong way of trying to solve two problems at once and end up with the worst of both worlds.

You want 10"s or at most 12"s for the tops, and if that doesn't give you enough bottom end, you need subs with 15"s or 18"s and separate amplification for the bottom end, *not* trying to do it all with one set.

I know full well that frequency response is not entirely controlled by driver size these days, but it still is to a large extent for typical cab design.

koneguitarist

ICBM said:

koneguitarist said:

Yes, that's what made me buy the 10's, vocals sound so much better with the 10's. And if you need it add the 15" sub in and it's far superior sound IMHO.

Completely agree. Typical 15" + horn cabs are the wrong way of trying to solve two problems at once and end up with the worst of both worlds.

You want 10"s or at most 12"s for the tops, and if that doesn't give you enough bottom end, you need subs with 15"s or 18"s and separate amplification for the bottom end, *not* trying to do it all with one set.

I know full well that frequency response is not entirely controlled by driver size these days, but it still is to a large extent for typical cab design.

Hard day, would you like to rest?

ChrisMusic

It all started off long, long ago with a couple of ancient WEM columns (remember them?) which were too heavy for us, but used to get tucked one under each arm of our giant roadie, carried down however many flights of stairs and bundled into the back of a rusty Ford Transit.  Them and a couple of SM58s for the singists, and a mixer-amp, luckily there are no pictures left.  He was great with back line too, and getting the beers in  

He was so strong that he once held up the front corner of the Transit while we changed a wheel on the way home from one gig.

Really nice guy too.  Every band needs their own Leon.   (cheers mate, wherever you are)

ChrisMusic

I have been privileged to be a part of some major landmark events, during a mixed career including playing and pro audio amongst other involvement in the industry.  But that was long, long ago in my past life.  I’ll share a bit of this if you want.

Very mixed emotions and bitter-sweet memories - I am really unsure whether to post any of this.

Royal Albert Hall - one of my favourite venues, for many reasons.

http://www.turbosound.com/upload-files/Image/test/TSE_rah.jpg

http://www.turbosound.com/upload-files/Image/test/Royal_Albert_Hall.jpg  (colour- line array)

Big Pineapple  -  it’s just a great picture if you like PA gear.

http://www.turbosound.com/upload-files/Image/test/SanSiro.jpg

Anyone who has been to the pyramid stage at Glastonbury from the very early days right up to 2002 will be familiar with the quality, clarity and power of Turbosound’s festival systems.

ChrisMusic

Call that a PA system ?    THIS is a system…

1988 - the largest front-of-house PA on record - Monsters of Rock

http://www.turbosound.com/upload-files/Image/test/Monsters-of-Rock038.jpg

The festival system was integrated with Maiden’s own rig for this, doubling the size of the festival system, and with Doug’s talent of pushing the master faders right up for Maiden, an experience never to be forgotten.  It is good to be a part of history.

A total of 360 Turbosound TMS-3 cabinets, offering a potential 523,000 Watts of programme power, brought to the 1988 UK Monsters of Rock Festival at Donington Park, headlined by Iron Maiden, a sound system which formed the largest front-of-house PA on record - a statistic that duly earned it a place in the 1989 Guinness Book of Records.

As it said on the T shirts - “Fuck me - thats’s loud”

I may even still have that T shirt somewhere.

Now that’s what I call PA  

ChrisMusic

Roger Waters was asked in an interview after the last of Pink Floyd's Wall concerts in the early 1980s if he would ever perform The Wall again. His reply was ‘No, never - unless the Berlin Wall came down...' Well, of course it did, and the historic concert was performed to over 450,000 people.

The 1990 concert was staged on vacant terrain between Potsdamer Platz and the Brandenburg Gate, a location that was part of the former "no-man's land" of the Berlin Wall.

http://jurick.net/blogger_images/larger/berlin-wall2.jpg

It was an historical day - the final piece of the Berlin Wall came crashing down after the show.

http://www.jurick.net/blogger_images/larger/wall-wide-angle.jpg

The show had a sell-out crowd of over 350,000 people, and right before the performance started the gates were opened which enabled at least another 100,000 people to watch.

http://www.jurick.net/blogger_images/larger/crowd.jpg

All of the money from the ticket sales went to the Memorial Fund for Disaster Relief - those who need aid and supplies from hurricanes, earthquakes, floods, etc. Roger Water's performance of The Wall was a cry for the tearing down of communication barriers around the world.

http://www.jurick.net/blogger_images/larger/The-Wall---Live-in-Berlin-1.jpg

You can see part of the array uncovered on the right of the pic here

http://www.rogerwaters.org/images/bw/stagefront.jpeg

This was the the very first outing for Turbosound's prototype UHQ system, or Flashlight as it was then known because of its extremely narrow directivity and astonishing projection.  Historic for both German unification and a successful proof of the new festival system.

Just had to go and babysit that one.

http://pinkfloydarchives.com/Discog/Argentin/LP/Solo/Waters/WLIB/IC.jpg

ChrisMusic

1992 - "In that summer Red Square was the scene for the first ever rock festival, a multi-band extravaganza ranging in scope from classical and folk right through to Euro-pop and rock'n'roll. Moscow's Orion Service Co had invested in a large 72-pair Flashlight system, which had just been shipped from customs direct to Red Square. On arriving on the morning of the show, Turbosound’s crew were amazed to find the PA almost completely rigged with only few angle adjustments to make - an amazing testament to the logical design of the flying system and Orion's understanding of Flashlight’s fundamentals."

The product of late nights production in the UK, with very limited testing.  It had never been assembled into a rig before being un-boxed in Red Square, and it worked perfectly !

It was just amazing to see Red Square used for a Rock Concert in a newly freed Russia.  Where once the Generals looked over tanks and missiles, there was music and people enjoying their new freedom.  What a spectacular and poignant setting.  It is one of those unique moments in time and history.  I am truly privileged to have been a part of that.

I did manage to find some Russian production footage of part of the concert, complete with fly-by, (do bear in mind this is Russia just after the fall of communism, and pre-autocue) please excuse the music :

This was followed just a week later by another musical extravaganza of a very different nature. The ‘Red Square Invites' spanned five classical concerts led by a memorable performance by José Carreras, and for this Orion's Flashlight PA was flown in a central cluster with Britannia Row providing TMS-3 front fill and delay towers.

Well thats's about it, more than enough for now, back to you guys   

johnnyurq

Awesome posts @ChrisMusic wowed me, especially the Wall Concert in Berlin for me. Not the best The Wall performance but great event and memory.

Looks like you must have had a hoot.

ICBM

ChrisMusic said:

It all started off long, long ago with a couple of ancient WEM columns (remember them?) which were too heavy for us, but used to get tucked one under each arm of our giant roadie, carried down however many flights of stairs and bundled into the back of a rusty Ford Transit.  Them and a couple of SM58s for the singists, and a mixer-amp, luckily there are no pictures left.  He was great with back line too, and getting the beers in  

He was so strong that he once held up the front corner of the Transit while we changed a wheel on the way home from one gig.

Really nice guy too.  Every band needs their own Leon.   (cheers mate, wherever you are)

I think I saw him at the Edinburgh Playhouse in about 1987, working for a support band (can't remember who). He picked up a whole Trace Elliot bass stack - two 4x10" cabs and probably at least a 500W head - by the handles of the bottom cabinet and walked off stage with it.

ChrisMusic

In one of the discussions on here Sound City amps were mentioned, and along with looking up the pictures posted below, that sparked one recollection of extreme PA moving heroism which came back.

I mentioned Leon in an earlier post, but I remember one particular night after the gig it was a bit excessive, even for him.

With him carrying two 4x12 PA columns, one under each arm, *plus* the valve PA amp in one hand and my 40W 1x12 combo in the other.  I had a nervous wait while he happily carried the whole lot down the venues main stairs, like it didn’t even trouble him.

Me ?  I was a nervous wreck just watching.  All I had was my guitar in it’s flight case and a big bag of leads.  Not sure where that was, but I think I always carried my own kit after that though.  I couldn’t bear the thought of him missing a step.

Like I said before, every band needs a Leon.

WEM 4x12 PA columns, (though I’m not sure if ours had horns too back then)  Horrible things, but I guess we all need to start somewhere.

http://www.renvers.com/mediac/450_0/media/DIR_52123/addf4960aec1551bffff8092d4355564.JPG

Sound City PA amp like this one IIRC

http://medias.audiofanzine.com/images/normal/sound-city-pa-120-448739.jpg

I had no idea back then what this would give way to … 

but that’s another story,  happy days  

Danny1969

Back in the day those columns were the norm, I brought a seventies pair of Fane columns that were only 75 watts handling but so efficient I could deafen the whole house with em

Here's a modern thing we use now that has been a game changer in PA setup times ..... the cat 5 stage box

The Cat 5 stage box lives in the same rack as the IEM transmitters and wireless mic receivers and everything's permanently connected. You connect one cat 5 cable between the rack and the desk and your done, everyone's ears will work, all the vocal mics will work as they are already connected. It's a real time saver

IanSavage

citizen68 said:

No pic unfortunately (yet!) but seeking a bit of advice. We're thinking of upgrading our PA which currently consists of a Studiomaster Horizon 1208 powered desk (600 + 600 watts) and two old speakers which are nearing the end of their usefulness. 

We're currently looking at 2 x RCF 715A Mk 2 powered speakers. I'm wondering if we get these & subsequently find we still need a bass bin for the lower end, can we use the power in the desk to drive a passive sub or would we be better saving for an active one? Would we need a crossover? Think the crossover module in the desk is shot.

PA will be mainly for vox but to get a nice balance it would be good to get a bit of guitar, bass & bass drum going through as well - 4 piece band playing classic rock covers in small local pubs so we're after better clarity rather than volume.

Would really appreciate any advice!

The crossover modules in the Focus/Vision/Horizon/Eclipse would have done the opposite of what you want to do anyway, the idea was that people would use the in-built amplifier to drive tops and the crossover module would send the low frequencies to the jack line outputs to drive a separate amp + sub(s) or active sub(s).

If it were me I'd look at either getting the crossover module working (they're not very complicated, but as far as I'm aware rocking-horse-shit to find), picking up an active sub or two and using better-quality passive speakers on the main outputs, OR adding the RCFs via the line outputs through an outboard crossover to keep the LF out of them, and finding a passive sub with a suitable low-pass filter (most of them have this) to run from the powered outputs and tweaking it to taste with the master section EQ. 

Personally I'd say the first solution is preferable, IF you can get the internal crossover working, although the second solution does give you the option of splitting the power amp and using 600W for sub-bass and 600W for a monitor mix via an aux send (which might be a better use of the power if you only want a touch of bass / kick drum reinforcement rather than knocking people over with bass). And for reasons too complex to go into here, in smaller spaces a single subwoofer is usually more effective than a spaced pair of them anyway. 

I'm ex-Studiomaster myself, if you're anywhere near Birmingham by all means get in touch and I'll see what can be done...

ICBM

Those WEM columns are fine until you put a modern-power amp through them…

http://i.imgur.com/XzBrw0m.jpg