5 Patterns of Major & Minor Pentatonic Scales using CAGED (or EDCAG)

close2u

The CAGED system makes use of the ‘shapes’ of five open chords to help describe and remember five scale patterns.
The first chord shape used is E then D, C, A, G so CAGED is really EDCAG.
This isn’t as snappy or memorable a name though.
It is important to remember that the ‘scale shape’ is wholly dependent upon the location of the root notes on the guitar neck for any given key being considered.


Taking everything in the key of G:



Minor pentatonic pattern 1 goes with major pentatonic pattern 1.  They use the same root notes and can be found at the same place on the neck.

---G Minor Pentatonic ----- G Major Pentatonic
----Pattern 1 ---- E shape ---- Pattern 1

e  --||--3--6--||--------------------||--3--5-||--
B  --||--3--6--||-------------------||--3--5--||--
G  --||--3--5--||-------------------||--2--4--||--
D  --||--3--5--||-------------------||--2--5--||--
A  --||--3--5--||-------------------||--2--5--||--
E  --||--3--6--||--------------------||--3--5--||--

Can you see how those root notes fall in the same place as the root notes of a G chord with a barre at fret 3 …. which is the same shape as an open E chord ... the E of EDCAG ... which is CAGED starting from E?
Pattern 1 = E shape




Minor pentatonic pattern 2 goes with major pentatonic pattern 2 They use the same root notes and can be found at the same place on the neck.

------G Minor Pentatonic --------------------- G Major Pentatonic
------Pattern 2 ---------- D shape ----------- Pattern 2

e  --||--6--8--||---------------------------------------||--5--7-||--
B  --||--6--8--||---------------------------------------||--5--8--||--
G  --||--5--7--||---------------------------------------||--4--7--||--
D  --||--5--8--||---------------------------------------||--5--7--||--
A  --||--5--8--||---------------------------------------||--5--7-||--
E  --||--6--8--||---------------------------------------||--5--7-||--

Can you see how those root notes fall in the same place as the root notes of a G chord at fret 5 …. which is the same shape as an open D chord ... the D of EDCAG … which is CAGED starting from E?
Pattern 2 = D shape



Minor pentatonic pattern 3 goes with major pentatonic pattern 3.  They use the same root notes and can be found at the same place on the neck.

------G Minor Pentatonic --------------------- G Major Pentatonic
------Pattern 3 ----------(C shape)-------------- Pattern 3

e  --||--8--10--||---------------------------------------||--7--10--||--
B  --||--8--11-||---------------------------------------||--8--10--||--
G  --||--7--10--||--------------------------------------||--7--9--||--
D  --||--8--10--||--------------------------------------||--7--9--||--
A  --||--8--10--||--------------------------------------||--7--10--||--
E  --||--8--10--||--------------------------------------||--7--10--||--

Can you see how those root notes fall in the same place as the root notes of a G chord with a mini-barre at fret 7 …. which is the same shape as an open C chord ... the C of EDCAG … which is CAGED starting from E?
Pattern 3 = C shape



Minor pentatonic pattern 4 goes with major pentatonic pattern 4.  They use the same root notes and can be found at the same place on the neck.

------G Minor Pentatonic --------------------- G Major Pentatonic
------Pattern 4 ----------(A shape)-------------- Pattern 4

e  --||--10--13--||-------------------------------------||--10-12--||--
B  --||--11--13--||------------------------------------||--10-12--||--
G  --||--10--12--||------------------------------------||--9--12--||--
D  --||--10--12--||-------------------------------------||--9--12--||--
A  --||--10--13--||-------------------------------------||--10--12--||--
E  --||--10--13--||-------------------------------------||--10-12--||--

Can you see how those root notes fall in the same place as the root notes of a G chord with a barre at fret 8 …. which is the same shape as an open A chord ... the A of EDCAG … which is CAGED starting from E?
Pattern 4 = A shape



Minor pentatonic pattern 5 goes with major pentatonic pattern 5.  They use the same root notes and can be found at the same place on the neck.

------G Minor Pentatonic --------------------- G Major Pentatonic
------Pattern 5 ----------(E shape)-------------- Pattern 5

e  --||--13--15--||----------------------------------------||--12--15--||--
B  --||--13--15--||----------------------------------------||--12--15--||--
G  --||--12--15--||----------------------------------------||--12--14--||--
D  --||--12--15--||----------------------------------------||--12--14--||--
A  --||--13--15--||----------------------------------------||--12--14--||--
E  --||--13--15--||----------------------------------------||--12--15--||--

Can you see how those root notes fall in the same place as the root notes of a G chord with a barre at fret 12 …. which is the same shape as an open G chord ... the G of EDCAG … which is CAGED starting from E?
Pattern 5 = G shape




NOTE:

Minor pentatonic pattern 1 is the same shape as major pentatonic pattern 5.
(E shape)

Minor pentatonic pattern 2 is the same shape as major pentatonic pattern 1.
(D shape)

Minor pentatonic pattern 3 is the same shape as major pentatonic pattern 2.
(C shape)

Minor pentatonic pattern 4 is the same shape as major pentatonic pattern 3.
(A shape)

Minor pentatonic pattern 5 is the same shape as major pentatonic pattern 4.
(G shape)

ajax

I see a logic in it being CAGED.   If you want to play a C chord, you can play it 1st position as a C shape, next one up the neck is 3rd fret A shape, then 5th fret G, 8th fret E & finally 10th fret D.   So CAGED is in sequence.

close2u

@ajax

If your logic works for you then


One thing though ... open C chord, built from the C Major scale, does not sit within the 1st pattern / shape / position of the C Major scale. It sits within the 3rd.

It is only in 'sequence' for C chords - no others.


CAGED absolutely is named after the open C, A, G, E and D chord shapes. The reason being that these shapes are moveable with a barre.
In alphabetical order:
A chord ... moveable shape
B chord ... built off moveable A shape
C chord ... moveable shape
D chord ... moveable shape
E chord ... moveable shape
F chord ... built off moveable E shape
G chord ... moveable shape

paisleysoul

Another reason to love the CAGED system. Hadn't looked at it this way, might incorporate this into my teaching!

randomhandclaps

ajax said:

I see a logic in it being CAGED.   If you want to play a C chord, you can play it 1st position as a C shape, next one up the neck is 3rd fret A shape, then 5th fret G, 8th fret E & finally 10th fret D.   So CAGED is in sequence.

This is correct.

close2u said:

@ajax

If your logic works for you then


One thing though ... open C chord, built from the C Major scale, does not sit within the 1st pattern / shape / position of the C Major scale. It sits within the 3rd.

It is only in 'sequence' for C chords - no others.

It's not about it sitting in the shape of the first position it's about using the root note that is the root note of position 1 of the C major scale, which obviously it shares with the 'A' shape.  The first position of the C major scale use notes from both the 'C' and the 'A' shape.  If you are solely look at it applying to open chord shapes then the 5th may confuse the issue but the moment you start to think about it modally it is far clearer.  If you applied the CAGED system to CMaj7,  Cm7, C7 (or any other dominant) or Cb5m7, all of your note start to fall within the first position.  As a result if we did not tie the 'C' shape to position 1 then the CAGED system would very quickly become irrelevant.  The need is all increases by the way we play diagonally upwards across the neck.

As for why 'C' comes first is simply because when teaching any musical theory you start with C major as the foundation.  It only seems odd for guitarists as by and large they have a habit of initially learning shapes rather than notes.

frankus

The reason guitarists use shapes to learn isn't habit, it's recognition of the fact that it has a reentrant tuning, unlike violins... and it has no visually obvious markers like a piano, unlike a saxophone there are several places to generate the same note ... so as a musical interface it's the most opaque - hence pattern playing is used, because it has definite benefits.

Slide players and banjo players play shapes their entire career! Sounds great too.

These things are far more useful as principles than they are as rules... rules aren't useful to ourselves and finding their uselessness too late we determine there must be some value to be had and use them as a crutch and beat other people over the head with..

It might sound flaky but rules are for making people unhappy, principles are where usefullness is.
 
I liked the CAGED because I imagined the finger patterns as three types of odd-shaped birds in a cage (this is using Jimmy Bruno's 5 piano's approach - same thing but with the major scale patterns).

Then you describe each finger pattern using solfege ( do re me etc ) and each bird has two distinctive calls except the baby birds that only go "fa la", certain birds only sit next to a few other types..

As a martial artist, I learnt the applications of kata long before I started getting interested in who'd discovered them.. and THEN when I did, I discovered simultaneous evolution meant that several people had devised the same methods at the different times on different continents. Imagine 6 strings, a hand span's reach, 4 fingers and a thumb.. and it's not infinite numbers of options.

So where's the point in arguing over whether it's a white zebra with black stripes or a black zebra with white stripes?

IanSavage

frankus said:

These things are far more useful as principles than they are as rules...

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/a5/a578dfe9e15370395048cc0e3c053ca4422728c68feac982ca3bdc7157aaec2b.jpg

frankus

arr!

Clarky

I tend not to use only CAGED or only 'linear' systems..

I developed something myself [as I was learning to play] own that just happened to fall somewhere in between the two..

Hootsmon

close2u said:

@ajax

If your logic works for you then


One thing though ... open C chord, built from the C Major scale, does not sit within the 1st pattern / shape / position of the C Major scale. It sits within the 3rd.

It is only in 'sequence' for C chords - no others.


CAGED absolutely is named after the open C, A, G, E and D chord shapes. The reason being that these shapes are moveable with a barre.
In alphabetical order:
A chord ... moveable shape
B chord ... built off moveable A shape
C chord ... moveable shape
D chord ... moveable shape
E chord ... moveable shape
F chord ... built off moveable E shape
G chord ... moveable shape

^ what does that line mean bro?

close2u

hootsmon said:

close2u said:

One thing though ... open C chord, built from the C Major scale, does not sit within the 1st pattern / shape / position of the C Major scale. It sits within the 3rd.

^ what does that line mean bro?

@hootsmon

See this diagram and refer to the thread I posted it in with the link below:

close2u said:

Imagine laying your 1st finger across as a barre at the lowest fret where notes have been coloured blue and you get barre chords built around the open shape chords of E, D, C, A, G.
And because these are drawn in the key of G, the EDCAG shapes are all G Major chords.

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee238/chaucer73/misc/MajorScale5patternsCAGEDsystemchordshapesblue_zps99afcfd7-1_zps8779fba5.jpg

The 3rd scale pattern shows that the open-C shape chord is contained within it ... EDCAG
http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/17625/a-discussion-on-the-major-scale

Hope that helps.

Hootsmon

 ^ can see and understand diagram bro but not quite getting why C open shape would not be 1st up?

close2u

@hootsmon

Convention really, the E-shape Major scale pattern is known as the 1st pattern.
Then they build laterally and overlap along the guitar neck from there ... pattern 2 overlaps and extends from pattern 1, pattern 3 overlaps and extends from pattern 2 etc.
CAGED is the 'word' we use.
But the order of patterns is EDCAG.

Hootsmon

gottcha bro, thanks....great article

frankus

why is the E pattern known as the first shape? If you're talking chord patterns most of the C and E ones are within reach.. and the D and A and G ones...

So why is E the first?

EricTheWeary

wether its CAGED, EDCAG, AGEDC,GEDCA,etc, depends on what you are playing doesn't it?

For example, if I play a Bb chord using the A shape and want the next position up the fretboard then the next shape I want is the G shape - so I'm playing AGEDC as I go up the fretboard ( or CDEGA if I was working back down again). If I was playing Bb with an A shape and then wanted an F chord I'd probably go to an E shape, ooh now I want G so I can play that with a G shape but Oh No I don't want the open strings so I'll do that as an E shape too.

Surely CAGED is just the easiest mnemonic for remembering the order and nothing is actually a first shape?

close2u

frankus said:

why is the E pattern known as the first shape?

Good question.
No real answer.
Because it is the major scale pattern that people learn first?
Because it has the root note on the 6th string? (so does G shape though).
Because it is based on the shape of the chord from the thickest / 1st string  (although we call this 6th string usually)?
Because it is?

If it does not sit comfortably with you out having a numbered system then do away with that terminology - nothing will change.
Call them E-shape pattern, D-shape pattern etc.

EricTheWeary said:

Surely CAGED is just the easiest mnemonic for remembering the order and nothing is actually a first shape?

And if you do that then this notion of why we say CAGED becomes exactly the point.
CAGED is just a word to remember something by, something that has a repeating pattern on the guitar neck. But not something that actually has a 'zero' point from which everything must be ordered upwards or downwards.

Again, I use the word convention.
Convention - we imply the E-shape first when we learn that as out first major scale pattern.
Convention - we imply the C-shape first when using the mnemomic CAGED.

ChrisMusic

frankus said:    why is the E pattern known as the first shape?

My perspective on this is that scales are often taught from the lowest note to the highest, and usually starting on the root too.  It both simplifies the initial learning and reinforces the sounds of the intervals that way IMO.

That said the lowest note in standard tuning is E on the 6th (bass) string, which is also the root of the E chord shape, so starting from there as the tonic (root) makes sense as the "first position" for scale patterns.  You can play the whole scale easily starting from there, with either an open string or first finger to start (from a different note).  The same convention applies to pentatonics, lowest root for a complete scale is position one.  It really is just a label after all, but one that makes some sense, is convenient, and simplifies the learning process, and especially if we all use the same terms (language) for shared communication.

CAGED makes a useful mnemonic.

The use of the key of C as a starting point also makes sense for learning.  It is the "white note" diatonic scale on a piano and has no accidentals, which makes it easier to take on board mentally.  It is easy to envision on a keyboard, but the guitars six skewed parallel scales (strings) make it much harder to get to grips with note naming and patterns, but we can look at the range of expression we gain from the instrument as a massive bonus.

frankus

Okay - so people who's teaching approach is fretboard-centric teach E first.

like @ChrisMusic I see learning the CAGED pattern starting on C as having benefits... that wouldn't be there if simply playing the pentatonic.

In the Jimmy Bruno approach (which I'm not advocating) the first step is to learn where all the "white notes" are on the fretboard... which is done using CAGED patterns in the key of C (face it there are only a few scale patterns that fall under the fingers) when that is done and can be illustrated, the fretboard has been learnt and the 5 patterns are learnt to in a context.

I didn't really like Jimmy Bruno's brusque attitude but this approach teaches the importants of patterns - they're less than the importance of knowing the notes.

Moveable patterns are seen as the payoff for having an obscure playing interface - I might not know what notes I'm playing but I can transpose that mystery into any frickin' key (as soon as I figure out where the root note is... wait a minute.... waaaaaaiitt a minute ... stop changing chords and bassline ... won't take a minute... nearly there...




















... nearly got it that time...








... oh yeah you wanna come over here and do it...










... not on my guitar...




... oh sure lend him a guitar, who's side you on judas....








... well of course, any idiot could play chromatically till they find the root note but that's un-melodic... </peter griffin illustrates>

telling someone to learn the Pentatonic Patterns in C clearly doesn't make as much sense: what's the point of knowing where all the white notes except B and F are?

Hmm maybe there's a reason for doing that, but only as a football for the cerebrally fixated..

frankus

ChrisMusic said:

frankus said:    why is the E pattern known as the first shape?

My perspective on this is that scales are often taught from the lowest note to the highest, and usually starting on the root too.  It both simplifies the initial learning and reinforces the sounds of the intervals that way IMO.

I'd question that, I was taught from the 7th fret because the first fret is too fricking hard to fret for a newb

frankus

ChrisMusic said:

It is easy to envision on a keyboard, but the guitars six skewed parallel scales (strings) make it much harder to get to grips with note naming and patterns, but we can look at the range of expression we gain from the instrument as a massive bonus.

The real issue is polyphony - if the guitar was intended to be entirely polyphonic it'd be tuned to a chord (i.e. Texas Tuning ACEGCE). If it was meant to be entirely solo it'd be tuned in fixed intervals (i.e Fripp and Jordan tuning EADGCF).

A guitar isn't as expressive as a saxophone or violin (not a question of taste) not as polyphonic as a keyboard... look at what we call a C13 chord it can't be CEGBbDF not enough strings.

I do kinda think the notion of scale patterns messes with a lot of stuff ... the ideal should be the notes were where I'd think they'd be till I changed tuning mid solo... the scales provide clues as to where some licks are easier to play... depending on whether you can roll fingers or some other constraint..