Bell Electrolabs A.D.T.

Karlos

Probably a long shot but has anyone got one or have any experience with one.

It's a pedal that I've been interested in since hearing Killing Joke when I was a kid and I've recently found some bits of info on the web on.

http://www.effectsdatabase.com/model/bell/adt

I realised it creates a sound that can be achieved with chorus and short delay but I wondered if there is anything similar around now doing that 'doubling' effect without any chorus or octave action. The EHX Polychorus 'double' setting seems kinda close but I wasn't too impressed.

There's also the old EHX Double Tracker but finding anything on those is tough. One went on eBay in the US for something like $300 and there's a guy on YouTube selling one but I cannot understand a word he says and I don't have a YouTube account to ask him.

I'm more interested in the A.D.T.

Anything would help.

thermionic

I guess if you just make a very short delay with one repeat then there's not much to distinguish that from the dry signal. You need some kind of variation there (delay time, pitch) to replicate the effect of two tracks with tiny random differences of timing or tuning. I think I have an ADT setting on a rack unit which I suspect adds a fixed pitch shift to one side for a slight "detuning" effect.

Karlos

What rack unit is that you have the setting on @thermionic ?

The thing about the genuinie ADT that I have read is there isn't any detuning as such which I guess is it's USP.

Listening to Geordie Walker the guitarist from Killing Joke he says it's actually designed for bass players and he has/had 2 of the units bolted together. I know he used to use a Deluxe Memory Man so the effect isn't *so* hard to achieve... I just wondered if any of these illusive units are still around. Seems to be a long forgotten pedal.

Cheers man.

thermionic

A detune patch on a Lexicon MX200 - signal split into L & R, each detuned slightly (Alesis Microverb has similar patches). It emulates the original tape technique of ADT rather than the pedal. The tape technique is basically automatic flanging - two copies of the same track play back but the tape speed of one is automatically speeded up and slowed down. This would introduce a time delay (positive and negative) and a pitch modulation. 

A quick google suggests plenty of info on Geordie's gear, and what he's been using as substitutes including a Line 6 DL-4. I think I'll try mine with a short delay with heavy modulation and bash out Eighties later...

Karlos

Damn I had a Microverb many years ago as well. I also read that he's using a DL-4 I'll try a similar setting with my G-Major2 but that thing is going on sale soon, I just don't get on with as much as I did with multiple delay pedals like I used to do.

It's more the early Killing Joke sound that I love... the orchestral (crap word) durge of the first 2 albums is immense, it's almost sludge but yeah the sound on Eighties is amazing - I'll have to get the Les Paul out to get anywhere near that ES 295 sound he has, don't think my current Telecaster will come close ;-)

EricTheWeary

How close is it to a Roland Dimension D or Boss Dimension C? Although they are pretty rare these days. Behringer do a cheap C clone, which is the only one on the market that I know of.

Karlos

Good call @EricTheWeary, I had completely forgotten about the Dimension C and was even aware of the DC-3.

The C sounds good but definitely something I can achieve with the chorus effects on the GMajor2 but the DC-3, now that is something else.

There's a YouTube vid (poor quality) but I instantly heard more of a doubling sound adding that sought after sludgey sound rather than a just another forum of chorus...I dunno If I'm hearing what I want to hear like some kind of pedal placebo effect :-)

Found a couple of DC-3's for sale, not cheap but... 

cheers man.

sweepy

I now feel older !! I remember that pedal very well when it was new, cracking almost "organic" sound

analoguetone

Hi Guys,
         I designed the Bell Electrolabs ADT and based it on my experiences and unique ideas whilst working at the BBC Radiophonic Workshop in the 1970s. To my knowledge there is nothing else that can do exactly what it did. PACE bought out Electrolabs and I left as I completely disagreed with the much cheaper design of their ADT, which really was nothing at all like my original Bell Electrolabs design. There was a load of clever stuff crammed into that original design of mine, which was expensive to make, but did the job superbly well. Nobody has managed to copy it since. I am also considering a re-issue of an updated and even better version if sufficient interest is out there. Great that so many have good memories of those excellent designs that Electrolabs marketed. I was involved in the Sustain, the ADT, and the Phaser,  and with a little bit of modification to the original Flanger design. I designed a  custom rackmount units for John Mizarollis, Dave Brock of Hawkwind, and Peter Bennett.

TTony

Welcome @analoguetone.  

You really ought to tell us some more about your thoughts re an updated version ...

robinbowes

analoguetone said:

Hi Guys,
         I designed the Bell Electrolabs ADT and based it on my experiences and unique ideas whilst working at the BBC Radiophonic Workshop in the 1970s. To my knowledge there is nothing else that can do exactly what it did. PACE bought out Electrolabs and I left as I completely disagreed with the much cheaper design of their ADT, which really was nothing at all like my original Bell Electrolabs design. There was a load of clever stuff crammed into that original design of mine, which was expensive to make, but did the job superbly well. Nobody has managed to copy it since. I am also considering a re-issue of an updated and even better version if sufficient interest is out there. Great that so many have good memories of those excellent designs that Electrolabs marketed. I was involved in the Sustain, the ADT, and the Phaser,  and with a little bit of modification to the original Flanger design. I designed a  custom rackmount units for John Mizarollis, Dave Brock of Hawkwind, and Peter Bennett.

Wow, that was an unexpected twist to the thread!

@analoguetone - I'd love to know more about the circuit.

R.

analoguetone

The ADT was the result of much discussion with the guys at Electrolabs. Mike Bell (then owner) wanted to hit a price point that would get us sales from EH at the time, and we had to get a prototype to the Frankfurt Musik Messe ... involving a HUGE amount of work on my part.  We had several recorded examples of the effect done in studios at the time using pro rack mount combinations which ran into thousands of pounds cost. I had to figure a way to avoid that sort of cost, get it into a footpedal format that would match the plugin design devised by Mike Bell, and work from batteries. In the end the battery option was a definite nono. So the prototype was a mess of crammed circuitry inside a Bell Electrolabs  footpedal enclosure. It had to work from batteries, so in the end, I did a bodge that allowed it to run on batteries for as long as they could hold the needed voltage, then cut out. Sadly, that happened before they had any time to demo it at Frankfurt. However, the concept and design had been proven. We used BB delay lines, the most expensive .. Reticon (no longer made) literally 4 times as many as the Electric Mistress Flanger. This gave me the ability to program a delay sweep modulation with a unique characteristic, not understood or copied in the single delay line PACE version to come later ( which was really a long delay flanger ). The whole concept was to make a sound that did exactly what it said. Make one guitar sound like several playing in near unison, with separate pitch drift, timing, dynamic, and random, but most essentially musical. This had to work for vocal, and keyboard, as well as work with a bass guitar. I had, as previously mentioned, worked for a while at the Radiophonic Workshop on attachment from BBC TV News, where I was designing broadcast audio stuff, as well as being a cameraman, video editor etc etc. The incredible innovative junk that was lurking around the Maida Vale premises could do almost anything, and produce sounds and effects that are still unique to this day. It really kicked me into the imaginative design mode, and that's why the ADT was so successful as a complex unit, as it was literally a nonstop brainwave from start to finish. The main directive was that this had to do the job correctly and not sound like anything else at the time. To be unique. I tried to be self critical at all stages, and it was only when I was really pleased with the sound that I took it to the team for comments. A great experience - they were amazed, and with someone else playing it - for the first time, I could appreciate how versatile it was. I remember at the London Music show in the Hotel Russell a few months later, a DJ playing around with it and managing to go OTT to make some really scary voices and Darth Vader sound-alikes - things I never imagined when designing it. That's the story, the description, and forgive me - but I am totally biased - so take it as that ! I would love to make some modern day equivalent, in fact the 1980s designs that I did for Dave Brock and Peter Bennett (album: The Old Pals Act) were really professional extensions of the ADT concept utilising much higher cost delay lines and pro audio interfacing. I thoroughly enjoy designing FX pedals (as a guitarist myself) and also did the in-guitar eq and preamp designs for Peter Cook (The Axis Guitar and Bass - and also some of John Entwistle's basses) and Doug Chandler, later founder of Chandler Guitars. Sorry for the ramble .. those were great days of incredible things.

robinbowes

That's brilliant. Fascinating to get the insight of a designer. It's Tony, right?

Ever thought of re-creating the effect in code?

R.

analoguetone

Hi, yes it is Tony ... the idea of using a pulse response code emulation is theoretical, but there is a complex dynamic, spatial and delay variation that cannot be quantified in code.... and this was a stereo option device which further complicates. I have discussed it with a designer friend who has done a lot of these things. I prefer analogue .. as you can tell ;-)

thermionic

Thanks for sharing the story behind this pedal, absolutely fascinating. I think a lot of us here grew up dreaming about getting a job at the Radiophonic Workshop!

revsorg

Back in the late seventies I used to do endless drawings of modular pedal systems based on the Bell Electrolabs idea.  The idea really appealed to me.  OK, I admit I didn't have the most exciting childhood, but I was happy.

pingpongpete1

analoguetone said:

The ADT was the result of much discussion with the guys at Electrolabs. Mike Bell (then owner) wanted to hit a price point that would get us sales from EH at the time, and we had to get a prototype to the Frankfurt Musik Messe ... involving a HUGE amount of work on my part.  We had several recorded examples of the effect done in studios at the time using pro rack mount combinations which ran into thousands of pounds cost. I had to figure a way to avoid that sort of cost, get it into a footpedal format that would match the plugin design devised by Mike Bell, and work from batteries. In the end the battery option was a definite nono. So the prototype was a mess of crammed circuitry inside a Bell Electrolabs  footpedal enclosure. It had to work from batteries, so in the end, I did a bodge that allowed it to run on batteries for as long as they could hold the needed voltage, then cut out. Sadly, that happened before they had any time to demo it at Frankfurt. However, the concept and design had been proven. We used BB delay lines, the most expensive .. Reticon (no longer made) literally 4 times as many as the Electric Mistress Flanger. This gave me the ability to program a delay sweep modulation with a unique characteristic, not understood or copied in the single delay line PACE version to come later ( which was really a long delay flanger ). The whole concept was to make a sound that did exactly what it said. Make one guitar sound like several playing in near unison, with separate pitch drift, timing, dynamic, and random, but most essentially musical. This had to work for vocal, and keyboard, as well as work with a bass guitar. I had, as previously mentioned, worked for a while at the Radiophonic Workshop on attachment from BBC TV News, where I was designing broadcast audio stuff, as well as being a cameraman, video editor etc etc. The incredible innovative junk that was lurking around the Maida Vale premises could do almost anything, and produce sounds and effects that are still unique to this day. It really kicked me into the imaginative design mode, and that's why the ADT was so successful as a complex unit, as it was literally a nonstop brainwave from start to finish. The main directive was that this had to do the job correctly and not sound like anything else at the time. To be unique. I tried to be self critical at all stages, and it was only when I was really pleased with the sound that I took it to the team for comments. A great experience - they were amazed, and with someone else playing it - for the first time, I could appreciate how versatile it was. I remember at the London Music show in the Hotel Russell a few months later, a DJ playing around with it and managing to go OTT to make some really scary voices and Darth Vader sound-alikes - things I never imagined when designing it. That's the story, the description, and forgive me - but I am totally biased - so take it as that ! I would love to make some modern day equivalent, in fact the 1980s designs that I did for Dave Brock and Peter Bennett (album: The Old Pals Act) were really professional extensions of the ADT concept utilising much higher cost delay lines and pro audio interfacing. I thoroughly enjoy designing FX pedals (as a guitarist myself) and also did the in-guitar eq and preamp designs for Peter Cook (The Axis Guitar and Bass - and also some of John Entwistle's basses) and Doug Chandler, later founder of Chandler Guitars. Sorry for the ramble .. those were great days of incredible things.

I have a Bell Electrolabs Mother and ADT somewhere in a cupboard.  IIRC the last time I used it it had some distortion but still sounded amazing.  Thanks for the background info, and congrats on designing a great effect.  I must dig it out and fire it up again.

konnektor

analoguetone said:

Hi, yes it is Tony ... the idea of using a pulse response code emulation is theoretical, but there is a complex dynamic, spatial and delay variation that cannot be quantified in code.... and this was a stereo option device which further complicates. I have discussed it with a designer friend who has done a lot of these things. I prefer analogue .. as you can tell ;-)

@analoguetone

Hi Tony - it was delightful to read your comments above - just discovered this thread now. I would certainly be interested in an updated ADT. A friend of mine, Geordie (guitarist in a UK band called Killing Joke), would doubtless also be interested - he uses 2 of the PAiCE units. I'm fascinated to hear that the original is more complex circuitry than the larger unit.

Any further thoughts or developments on this?

Secret_Sam

@analoguetone did you ever run into Mark Wilson at the Radiophonic Workshop? Would have joined in the mid-80s. 

Brio

TCElectronic Mimiq. Works great.

https://www.andertons.co.uk/brands/tc-electronic/tc-electronic-mimiq-doubler

SRich

I'm surprised the Strymon Deco hasn't been mentioned so far. I've used mine with an expression pedal for years. Not the cheapest solution but certainly relatively available.