New Paypal terms. Must read for sellers

timmysoft

I stopped using ebay and PayPal a year ago, I got stitched up for a Marshall cab and 200 quid. When it comes to buying stuff for my new project I will be buying from the forums or from local shops, I don't mind paying a bit more for service or a friendly face. I've had great deals on this forum too, met some top guys!

usedtobe

I'm getting to the stage where I've just about had it with the ebay/paypal thing.. 

57Deluxe

/\ no - I have lost 3 accounts caused by people 'playing the game' and steadily wearing your stats down... My Music Software items were all in the ~£10 area where ebay/paypal dismiss any seller rights whatsover... Mostly ppl didn't like paying postage that wasn't a 50p stamp even though they expected next day delivery and signed for and the full charge was clearly indicated before they bid!

Heartfeltdawn

ICBM said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

crunchman said:

I'm not sure that Feebay want private sellers anymore.  I think they might be trying to drive them off.

Ebay want the big box shifters. Private sellers and small business sellers are not popular with them. 

I don't think so - given by the (highly annoying) radio ads they're putting out just now, they do want small private sellers as well.

Is it actually a sign that they're losing small sellers, but haven't realised why - or that they're hoping to attract new ones who haven't discovered the pitfalls yet?

If they do want them, then they aren't doing much to pull them in. The regular free listings weekend promos have shrunk back hugely. Earlier this year private sellers auctioning items with a start price of £1 or less could have 100 free listings. That has now been reduced to 20. Gumtree and forums like this have taken a lot of trade away from Ebay. Why jump through Ebay's hoops when you can list on Gumtree? 

57Deluxe

/\ again I repeat - ebay bought GUMTREE about 3 years ago... they started putting restrictions in place straight away. For instance  - if you lose your ebay account and you attempt to use your suspended ebay email addy for your GUMTREE account, GUMTREE will not will not let you post...

Heartfeltdawn

Yes I know Ebay bought Gumtree. The restrictions you speak off don't affect that many people. I'd bet a lot of Gumtree users don't use Ebay at all. 

Heartfeltdawn

And here's a funny one. I took out money this morning from a Tesco cashpoint, £40 to pay for a pedal I picked up from Gumtree. At the bottom of the cash receipt is an ad for Ebay. Giggles. 

mellowsun

Ebay used to be great. It was a mixture of old skool and nu skool. Selling stuff over the internet but then waiting for the handwritten cheque to arrive, wait for it to clear (unless you'd dealt with the buyer before) and then post the stuff. You could charge fairly for postage so that you could cover the ebay/paypal fees. Sellers weren't forced to offer PayPal, and feedback was both ways, and most of the time it all worked fine.

Most buyers were also sellers, it was a bit like the classifieds here, but on a much larger scale. 

Then it all went wrong when Ebay decided it wanted to be like a cross between Amazon and Wall-Mart, opened it up to the big, commercial sellers, and the rest is history.

I'll never sell on there again.

close2u

Yes, Ebay built it's huge success on little people's activity.
Now it is the only market player it only seems to want big business on there.
Where are the Monpolies Commission?
Ebay is a monopoly.
Remember - buyer's do not actually contribute any money to Ebay.
Ebay get all their transaction fees from the sellers.
And yet it is the sellers they take against the most in their easy-to-abuse / can-be-punitive 'buyer rights' programme.
And they charge a 10% fee on the actual real cost of posting an item!!
Cheeky b######s.

57Deluxe

I hate ebay nearly as much as I hate Rod 'hope he gets the clappers' Chappers

Heartfeltdawn

mellowsun said:

Ebay used to be great. It was a mixture of old skool and nu skool. Selling stuff over the internet but then waiting for the handwritten cheque to arrive, wait for it to clear (unless you'd dealt with the buyer before) and then post the stuff. You could charge fairly for postage so that you could cover the ebay/paypal fees. Sellers weren't forced to offer PayPal, and feedback was both ways, and most of the time it all worked fine.

Most buyers were also sellers, it was a bit like the classifieds here, but on a much larger scale. 

Then it all went wrong when Ebay decided it wanted to be like a cross between Amazon and Wall-Mart, opened it up to the big, commercial sellers, and the rest is history.

Exactly. It was a giant classifieds site. 

close2u said:

Yes, Ebay built it's huge success on little people's activity.
Now it is the only market player it only seems to want big business on there.
Where are the Monpolies Commission?
Ebay is a monopoly.
Remember - buyer's do not actually contribute any money to Ebay.

They do contribute. These banner ads on each page aren't just for sellers. High buyer footfall = big audience for those ads = Ebay get to charge a better rate for those ads. 

Ultimately if a buyer doesn't buy something from an Ebay seller, that seller pays bugger all. 

close2u

Heartfeltdawn said:

They do contribute. These banner ads on each page aren't just for sellers. High buyer footfall = big audience for those ads = Ebay get to charge a better rate for those ads. 

Ultimately if a buyer doesn't buy something from an Ebay seller, that seller pays bugger all. 

Buyer - seller activity contributes to Ebay revenue.
But hat contribution comes exclusively from the seller.
So the seller deserves some recognition and decent customer service imho.

Adverts contribute to Ebay revenue but none of that contribution comes from buyers.
Ads work on the basis that maybe someone viewing them will decide to go with the advertised product.
Buyers and sellers view Ebay pages.

So I repeat - buyers do not contribute to Ebay revenue.
Without buyers Ebay could not function.
But they are not the direct revenue source.

Fortheloveofguitar

close2u;266474" said:

Heartfeltdawn said:









They do contribute. These banner ads on each page aren't just for sellers. High buyer footfall = big audience for those ads = Ebay get to charge a better rate for those ads. 

Ultimately if a buyer doesn't buy something from an Ebay seller, that seller pays bugger all. 





Buyer - seller activity contributes to Ebay revenue.

But hat contribution comes exclusively from the seller.

So the seller deserves some recognition and decent customer service imho.



Adverts contribute to Ebay revenue but none of that contribution comes from buyers.

Ads work on the basis that maybe someone viewing them will decide to go with the advertised product.

Buyers and sellers view Ebay pages.



So I repeat - buyers do not contribute to Ebay revenue.

Without buyers Ebay could not function.

But they are not the direct revenue source.

+1. Well said

Gagaryn

57Deluxe said:

/\ again I repeat - ebay bought GUMTREE about 3 years ago... they started putting restrictions in place straight away. For instance  - if you lose your ebay account and you attempt to use your suspended ebay email addy for your GUMTREE account, GUMTREE will not will not let you post...

More scaremongering. eBay have owned Gumtree since 2005, i.e. for as long as any of us have used it.

Heartfeltdawn

close2u said:

 

Buyer - seller activity contributes to Ebay revenue.
But hat contribution comes exclusively from the seller.
So the seller deserves some recognition and decent customer service imho.

Adverts contribute to Ebay revenue but none of that contribution comes from buyers.
Ads work on the basis that maybe someone viewing them will decide to go with the advertised product.
Buyers and sellers view Ebay pages.

So I repeat - buyers do not contribute to Ebay revenue.
Without buyers Ebay could not function.
But they are not the direct revenue source.

Adverts - If it's a pay per click advert then the product does not have to be bought in order for Ebay to make money. Seller and buyer alike, whoever clicks on it earns a wee bit more for Ebay. Saying none of that contribution comes from buyers is plain wrong. 

Some adspace will be sold in a more traditional manner. The heavy McDonalds campaign in 2011 for instance.

Monopolies - That's like bitching about Google dominating search engines. EBay got wise early on that the actual sale items weren't were the cash was to be made, it was in the payment method. It's possibly the last time Ebay were actually smart.

Direct revenue source aka a phrase you didn't use before when you proclaimed that buyers don't contribute to Ebay - now direct revenue source is a different matter. No argument there. But this idea that buyers contribute nothing at all to Ebay is a very narrow way of looking at it. I'm a business seller and I know that I am the middle man acting between the buyer and Ebay. 

close2u

Heartfeltdawn said:

Adverts - If it's a pay per click advert then the product does not have to be bought in order for Ebay to make money. Seller and buyer alike, whoever clicks on it earns a wee bit more for Ebay. Saying none of that contribution comes from buyers is plain wrong. 

Pay per click - no wonder they gear it up so that as the page is loading you go to click on something and it gets squeezed at that exact moment so you inadvertently click on an advert.
The sneaky so and sos.
I didn't know that.
I concede that point.

Heartfeltdawn said:

Monopolies - That's like bitching about Google dominating search engines. EBay got wise early on that the actual sale items weren't were the cash was to be made, it was in the payment method. It's possibly the last time Ebay were actually smart.

Others are encroaching on Google turf now at least.
Where are the newly emerging classifieds sites?
Ebay needs stiff competition as it really is abusing it's power position ... shafting sellers / Inland Revenue / whoever it pleases.

Heartfeltdawn said:

Direct revenue source aka a phrase you didn't use before when you proclaimed that buyers don't contribute to Ebay - now direct revenue source is a different matter. No argument there. But this idea that buyers contribute nothing at all to Ebay is a very narrow way of looking at it. I'm a business seller and I know that I am the middle man acting between the buyer and Ebay. 

I admit I wasn't clear and should have been in my first post.  I was meaning direct revenue source.
Ebay is a type of market place and they can only function and exist where there is buyer / seller activity. Transactions bring revenue to Ebay. Sellers make their profit with a cut going to Ebay. Buyers only influence that amount of revenue by [a] engaging in buying, [b] bidding prices higher. It is a chicken and egg scenario.
Without sellers there would be no Ebay.
Without buyers there would be no Ebay.
What really frustrates the hell out of folk is that buyers are afforded many more rights by default than sellers.
There is virtually no burden of proof on a buyer when claiming that, for instance, a 2nd hand item is not as described, did not arrive etc.
And in those cases the seller is helpless as they watch their paypal monies frozen and then refunded automatically to the buyer making such a claim.

57Deluxe

MY *FREE* ALTERNATIVES:

ebid.co.uk

ecrater.com

musicalads.co.uk

backpage.com

friday-ad.co.uk

preloved.co.uk

vivastreet.co.uk

freeads.co.uk

loot.com

craigslist.co.uk

blazingmonkey.com

YOUTUBE.COM - make and link a vid to your own webpage!

tip:  - any youtube video will automatically be higher in google search returns  - cos they own it!

Heartfeltdawn

@close2u

The problem for any emerging classifieds site is that items bought that require postage will be paid for with Paypal and thus end up going to their biggest competitor. That's why I said earlier that Ebay were very smart when they realised that the method of payment was ultimately going to be worth more than the actual sale of items on Ebay. Paypal is starting to come into use in shops. The restaurant where I work has had several Paypal letters come through recently encouraging us to accept this form of payment. There's also the matter of Ebay owning the patent to that style of online auction. 

I totally agree that sellers are getting a progressively shitter deal on Ebay. As sellers leave or move to other platforms, the buyers end up with reduced choice. The sellers do get treated poorly on there compared to buyers as you rightly say. 

RichardsGuitars

I think someone mentioned earlier that Paypal take the money from the buyers account when there is a "dispute".  I can confirm this.  Its terrible!

The moment someone raises the dispute, bang, the moneys gone from your account!

Now you imagine how much money Paypal have in their account purely from disputes at any one time.  This new policy will provide them with a massive new income stream - it has nothing to do with improving customers experiences - its all about making money.

Bidley

I sold a pedal on eBay last week. No babies died.