Nut files - should beginners be wary?

octatonic

I've not used the Hosco ones.

Every luthier I know has the Stewmac ones.

ChrisMusic

I am curious, if you make a mistake, how do you remove the old nut and how do you fit a new one without risking damage to the finish ?

Megii

I got a set of the Hosco ones from Tonetech a few years ago (they were about 90-something quid then IIRC) - they are certainly excellent, although I wish the set also included a 0.020 and a 0.050. With that in mind, it's maybe worth the extra for the Stew Mac single-edged set. Depends on how many nuts you will want to do in the future, and what variety of string gauges will be involved, I would say.

WezV

ChrisMusic said:

I am curious, if you make a mistake, how do you remove the old nut and how do you fit a new one without risking damage to the finish ?

depends on the guitar

 

gibsons have finish going over the side so you score the finish first, put a small block of wood against the nut on the fretboard side and give a small tap with a hammer towards the tuners.  it should come off cleanly but may need a bit of glue cleaning off befoe attaching a new nut.  you can often reuse the same nut as it will come off in one go

 

fenders are a bit more fiddly and you sacrifice the nut.  you need to take a thin saw and run it lengthways down the centre of the nut right the way through.  grasp the nut with some pliers or cuters and it will close the gap you just made so both halves come away cleanly

 

 

ChrisMusic

That sounds easy enough @WezV, thanks  

BTW, what do you recommend to glue the new one back in place, and do you just push it into position or need to clamp it there?

WezV

as logn as the string splay isn't too great and is cut properly a nut should stay in place just with string pressure.

 

of course real life is not so kind, so they just need a little glue to provide extra purchase.  They do not need to be welded in place.

 

2 small drops of superglue applied to the underside of the nut away from the guitar works well for me.  No need to clamp and you play it pretty much straight away

 

if you do use a slower settign glue (wood glue will work)  string it up and use string pressure as the clamp - don't play it unti its set though

ChrisMusic

Thank you kindly   

BenSirAmos

guitarfishbay said:

This is a bit confusing, am I supposed to be buying files or just sandpaper?

Why not try the sandpaper first? If you find it too tedious, splash out on some nut files. I can't remember which ones I have - almost certainly stewmac-supplied. And a set of £20 ones from ebay to do rough work and start off brass ones. 

Whichever set you get, I think you will end up compromising at some point. Even if you get the perfect set, you are bound tochange your mind and want one that is larger or smaller than the one you have in your set. I guess smaller is better because you can develop a 'rolling' motion when cutting a slot to make it a smidge wider. 

And I've only recently started using glue - the pressure of the strings has always been enough to hold nuts in place (and I do all kinds of string bending and behind the nut bends without problems)  I think I started using a very weak wood glue to keep them in place because I had some to hand one time. 

And Dan Erlewine's book is a nice thing to have. I don't treat it like a bible and I disagree with many things he says - but I like it that he has opinions. You wouldn't go far wrong if you followed his advice.

Corvus

I got my files from Philadelphia Luthiery (or similar), they were around the 50 squid mark I think. Nut blanks from fleabay, from China as multiples, works out cheap. An 8 thou razor saw for sizing blanks and starting slots. Various files & sandpaper for general shaping. Woodworking vice from a boot sale to hold nuts while slotting etc.

Tape - use 3M blue paper masking tape (not the darker blue vinyl tape). It's safe on all finishes, it's purpose is painter's masking tape. Like most tapes it will harden up and stick harder if left on several days - just waft a hairdryer over it and it'll peel off easily without pulling hard at the finish/wood etc.

BenSirAmos

Just checked - I've got Hosco. Seem fine - Japanese-made - I've managed to take a nick out of the 010 file though,

I now have a Prefox set too (£20 I think) in case I feel like going in with too much gusto. I still think fine wet and dry would be my first choice for widening slots. You need to be careful you don't deepen the slots as you work, and keep the slot straight without bowed sides - but you would need to be careful not to go deeper or bowing if you were using files as well.

I have the set of 10 edge cut files

http://www.hosco.co.jp/HOSCO_ENGLISH/productsE/hosco_tools_file1.html

randomhandclaps

Was in the parts supplier the other day and saw on of these new fangled things.  It's a Phillips Signature Automatic Nut File. I don't know if they are much cop but might be worth checking out.

http://www.mississaugalife.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/chainsaw.jpg

BenSirAmos

Looks like a fine bit of kit and perfect for the job - but I'd still want something cheaper as well in case I attacked the work with too much gusto and broke it.

JookyChap

I got the Stew-mac ones in the end and they are excellent, but I've found myself using this cheapy one more often recently as it is just so easy to hold and works perfectly. (Should explain - I have dodgy hands and gripping the normal files can be an issue)

asimmd

This is a question and a comment. When I asked this question a long time ago I was told a set of 3 double sided nut files would be fine,say 10/46. The reason given was that when fitting heavier gauge strings,you weren't making the slot deeper,just making it a bit wider. Using the closest one to the size of string,just angle the file slightly left/ right to widen it. I would be interested in comments from those who know a lot more than I do. Alan

WezV

I do it for the sizes I have not got

BenSirAmos

That's what I do, although you need to still keep the file so that the sides of the slot are straight. But the rolling motion works best while you are cutting a new slot which you want wider than the file. It's not so easy to do that when trying to widen an existing slot because the file has a tendency to stick, which is probably how I chipped my 010 file - maybe the technique is to use graphite or something to avoid sticking when widening existing slots.

WezV

I just go with lighter pressure until its starting to cut. 

octatonic

WezV said:

I do it for the sizes I have not got

As do I.

BenSirAmos

WezV said:

I just go with lighter pressure until its starting to cut. 

Did I mention my gusto?

guitarfishbay

I had a chat with Jack from http://www.jacksinstrumentservices.com/ who has been doing my guitar repair work for a while.  He actually owns all 3 types of the nut files I've been looking at, both the double and single sided Stew Mac files and the Hosco files.  He started out on the Hosco files and later bought the Stew Mac ones.

These days he tends to prefer the double sided Stew Mac files.  He does like the single sided Stew Mac files but noted that the thinnest one is quite flexible as there is nothing thicker on the other side to keep it rigid.  Also the handle on the double edged files seems nicer.

I only had a camera phone on me so apologies for the picture quality.  These aren't all the same thickness of file either FWIW.

One difference between the Stew Mac (left, red handle) and Hosco (right, yellow handle) double edged files is that the teeth are V pattern on the Stew Mac but horizontal on the Hosco.  He preferred the Stew Mac style.

Also here is a photo with all 3 types to see the teeth, goes L-R Stew Mac Double, Stew Mac Single, Hosco.