How do you evaluate new members?

Drew_TNBD

How do you guys evaluate new members? How do you know fairly quickly whether they're the right type of musician for your band? How do you avoid 2 years of work to then only realize that actually... they're not the right one!

Surely this can't be just me?

John_P

I think it's really hard to be sure until you share a stage or a writing session depending on the type of band.   People can talk about doing alll sorts of things that make them sound perfect but then when it comes to doing hte business turn out rather different... one of my bands is on the 3rd singer this year as people fail to live up to being the person they describe themselves...

digitalscream

There's no hard-and-fast way. Examples of red flags for me are:

- No job

- Early 20s, music degree, endlessly searching for a job that fits their music "career"

- No car, but can "get wherever I need to be" (OK, so that one fits me, but there's not room for too many of those in a band)

- No previous experience in bands

- No clips of their playing

- Likes the band's music, but all their clips are of weird prog stuff or shouty metal

- Cheap/crap gear

- Expensive gear but no idea how to use it

- Doesn't take criticism well

- Noodles between songs

- Is an axe murderer

octatonic

I can tell on a first meeting.

They can either deliver musically or they can't.

Everything else is negotiable.

Adam_MD

octatonic;285950" said:

I can tell on a first meeting.They can either deliver musically or they can't.Everything else is negotiable.

I'm with you on this one, I have a lot more time for someone who can 'keep up' musically.

robinbowes

Adam_MD said:

octatonic;285950" said:

I can tell on a first meeting.They can either deliver musically or they can't.Everything else is negotiable.

I'm with you on this one, I have a lot more time for someone who can 'keep up' musically.

+1

Roland

Top of my list is shared ambitions, and the appropriate level of dedication. If you're all pulling in the same direction, and putting in the right amount of effort, then most other problems can be resolved. The audition should sort out tuning and timing, and give an indication about their equipment. A few rehearsals should show whether they can work collaboratively, and are prepared to put the effort in. I've watched someone lose interest when we've needed to run through something a couple of times, for example to try alternative vocal harmonies or drum patterns. The other thing I like to do as soon as possible is get them out in a live situation, or watch them perform with another band or at a jam night, to see how they react in front of an audience.

monquixote

octatonic said:

I can tell on a first meeting.

They can either deliver musically or they can't.

Everything else is negotiable.

I used to think this, but I put a band together on that basis before and it didn't work out well. 

Several members were completely flakey muso types who would randomly turn up late or not all all, others would be hardly available, or would commit to a gig, but then blow it out because they got offered something else that paid a lot more money. I also had problems with people wanting to do whatever they could to do as many gigs of any type provided they paid. 

I'm actually very wary of working with "pro" or "semi pro" musicians now because of their tendency to be overcommitted and desperate for money. 

In my new band I'm deliberately looking for people who can play, but for whom it's just a hobby.

stickyfiddle

monquixote said:

In my new band I'm deliberately looking for people who can play, but for whom it's just a hobby.

That is the way to do it. There are surprisingly few people who are upfront about it, despite it being what most of us do in bands. 

My last lot were brilliant. Everyone had a proper job except the one who was retired and obviously on a decent pension. Everyone turned up to everything on time with the right kit and having learned songs properly, and if they hadn't, had already let everyone in advance know by phone/text/email that they'd be late or struggling on one song or whatever. 

No bullshit, no excuses and no problems.

monquixote

stickyfiddle said:

monquixote said:

In my new band I'm deliberately looking for people who can play, but for whom it's just a hobby.

That is the way to do it. There are surprisingly few people who are upfront about it, despite it being what most of us do in bands. 

My last lot were brilliant. Everyone had a proper job except the one who was retired and obviously on a decent pension. Everyone turned up to everything on time with the right kit and having learned songs properly, and if they hadn't, had already let everyone in advance know by phone/text/email that they'd be late or struggling on one song or whatever. 

No bullshit, no excuses and no problems.

That's exactly what I'm going for now. I'd gladly sacrifice a degree of musical ability for professionalism although luckily at the moment that hasn't been required.

hugbot

Drew_fx said:

How do you guys evaluate new members? How do you know fairly quickly whether they're the right type of musician for your band? How do you avoid 2 years of work to then only realize that actually... they're not the right one!

Surely this can't be just me?

The thing is, if I was playing with someone for 2 years, and then it came to an end, I would consider that a success on the whole.
I mean that's assuming two years of decent music making/gigging and such, that's great. That's enough time to make some solid work. Enough that even if you end up having to replace them you're not starting from scratch.

Roland

monquixote said:

stickyfiddle said:

monquixote said:

In my new band I'm deliberately looking for people who can play, but for whom it's just a hobby.

That is the way to do it. There are surprisingly few people who are upfront about it, despite it being what most of us do in bands. 

My last lot were brilliant. Everyone had a proper job except the one who was retired and obviously on a decent pension. Everyone turned up to everything on time with the right kit and having learned songs properly, and if they hadn't, had already let everyone in advance know by phone/text/email that they'd be late or struggling on one song or whatever. 

No bullshit, no excuses and no problems.

That's exactly what I'm going for now. I'd gladly sacrifice a degree of musical ability for professionalism although luckily at the moment that hasn't been required.

Ditto

digitalscream

monquixote said:

That's exactly what I'm going for now. I'd gladly sacrifice a degree of musical ability for professionalism although luckily at the moment that hasn't been required.

Yup, this is my position. Somebody can improve their musical ability if they have the dedication; a musical genius will rarely be able to improve their professionalism.

At least, that's what my experience thus far tells me.

jeztone2

I spent 3 months in a band with these two guys my age who just liked smoking weed. I didn't mind this, but they were very close as people. I never gelled with either as a person. They taped every rehearsal & they seemed to like what I was doing. Then the songwriter had a go at me one day & said her just wanted flat undistorted, unaffected guitars on everything. I just felt really undermined we had a few more rehearsals but soon as I started to challenge the songwriter on arrangements ( a song thats just E & A is boring)...I was out. In the end i think their old guitarist ( who songwriter said just played as he was told) came back & Id provided them with a load of free arrangement idea's. I hate looking at the classifieds now. Every ad on Gumtree in London seems to want a session player for free. Wheras every band Ive been in Ive contributed too & thats been recognised. Another band I auditioned for, the guitarist saw my wah wah & said " oh thats just a wankers pedal" he kept banging on about Slash, which I found weird as I always use a Wah Wah with reverb , delay & an Ebow & it sounded like a Clarinet, not Slash. Sorry I could rant for hours on the unfortunate types Ive met at auditions.

randomhandclaps

At the first meeting I always go dressed as the Elephant Man and immediately dismiss anyone who spends more time staring at me than looking at the drummer for cues.

guitarfishbay

What we found worked for us was:

- First audition is short, half an hour is plenty.  Our format is we play 2 original songs, they play 2 songs of their own choice that show their skill.  One in the same style, one of their own choice, usually against an iPod backing through the PA.  Have them stand up and perform like they're at a gig, and do the same yourself - it can tell you a lot about their confidence if they can put up a good performance to a room of a few strangers.  After that spend the rest of the time on 2 way Q & A.  If they can't play, or don't like your band there is no point and that gets that right out of the way straight off the bat with minimal time wastage.  In the Q & A the clearer you are about expectation the better.  We didn't see any point in getting them to learn stuff for the first audition because if we didn't like them then it'd be a waste of everyone's time.  However the bassist we got recently actually turned up having learned a track unprompted in addition to his two audition songs so he got extra brownie points (and the spot in the band).

- If they are worth meeting again give them 2 weeks to learn as much as possible from a set list of material, and have them back for a full rehearsal session on the understanding that if they fit your requirements and everyone is happy chemistry wise they can get the spot in the band.  I think 1 week is too harsh, but a serious musician should be able to learn some material in 2 weeks.  We found ranging differences - from people who turned up having done no work and expecting to be taught it, having only 'listened in the car a few times' to people turning up ready to go on a fair chunk of material.  The amount of material they learn and the type of excuses they give for not learning stuff can give a good indication of what they'll be like to work with, and how seriously they'll take the band.  After a full session you can usually tell if they're going to fit or not, and whether or not you have working styles that gel.

Drew_TNBD

Our bassist turned up and learnt 3 of our songs in the two days prior. This massively impressed us because he shat all over every other bassist we tried. But that didn't give us any idea about his composing ability and it didn't really give us a big idea of the kinds of sounds that he likes to try and get. If I'm honest... I think we just wanted someone in as quickly as possible to get us to speed with gigs, and now I'm noticing all these issues. I've been aware of them for a long time, but it's only now at this critical stage of wrapping up an album that they're coming to the forefront.

frankus

hugbot said:

Drew_fx said:

How do you guys evaluate new members? How do you know fairly quickly whether they're the right type of musician for your band? How do you avoid 2 years of work to then only realize that actually... they're not the right one!

Surely this can't be just me?

The thing is, if I was playing with someone for 2 years, and then it came to an end, I would consider that a success on the whole.
I mean that's assuming two years of decent music making/gigging and such, that's great. That's enough time to make some solid work. Enough that even if you end up having to replace them you're not starting from scratch.

I agree with this, acting troupes work exactly the same way - there's only so long that bands stay fresh.

monquixote

Yep, I'm happy if I get a couple of years out of a band member. (Or a band get a couple of years out of me)

failed_astronaut

- No job

- Early 20s, music degree, endlessly searching for a job that fits their music "career"

- No car, but can "get wherever I need to be" (OK, so that one fits me, but there's not room for too many of those in a band)

- No previous experience in bands

- No clips of their playing

- Likes the band's music, but all their clips are of weird prog stuff or shouty metal

- Cheap/crap gear

- Expensive gear but no idea how to use it

- Doesn't take criticism well

- Noodles between songs

- Is an axe murderer

 

I like that "axe murderer" is so far down the list. Obviously we're all prepared to put up with a lot before being potentially murdered!

randomhandclaps

How do you evaluate new members?

1. Girth
2. Length
3. Straightness

Surely it was a cert someone would have posted this by now?! Man, this place is going downhill.