Bass balance

ROOG

I had the opportunity to try out an Epiphone electric Bass and immediately noticed that it tried to take a nose dive. This took me by surprise and set me wondering if all Basses tended to do this?

There was definitely a constant pressure on the fret hand to hold the thing up.

Are there 'beginners' basses which are better balanced please? 

 

guitarfishbay

If it was a Thunderbird or SG style bass I'm not surprised.  They're particularly prone to neck dive by design.

For better balance you should check out something that is Fender styled, a Precision or Jazz bass should balance better.  There are many other options of similar shape from pretty much every other bass making company.

To some extent you may experience neck dive more easily on basses than electric guitars, purely because the necks are longer and usually also heavier.  A grippy strap will help too, something wide with suede on the bottom is a good choice.

ICBM

What he said. Some other 'modern' styled cheap basses can suffer from overly light bodies as well, which doesn't help.

I would get a Squier P-Bass, it's really impossible to go wrong with one. Some of the slightly more expensive models are all but indistinguishable from a USA Fender in many ways.

fretmeister

loads of Fender types have neck dive to some extent, some massively. The long 4 in line headstock doesn't help, and anyone who builds a 5 or 6 with an in line 'stock needs shooting.

Hipshot Ultra-Light tuners can knock off as much as 1/2 pound of weight on the headstock and that can make a big difference.

Balance is the most important thing for me. If it won't balance then I don't care how good the rest of it is, I'm not keeping it.

ChrisMusic

+1 to the advice above.

Grippy straps can pull your clothing around though, especially if the balance is really bad.

A bit embarrassing on stage adjusting your clothes whilst playing, iirc.

You also want to make sure it balances well when sitting, and the jack is situated OK for whatever way you like to play.

When I am sitting, Les Pauls keep wanting to slip away and hide on the floor beside me, (is that balance or just my playing)  

ROOG

It might have been an Epi SG. They didn't have any Squire Bass only 'full fat' Fenders, and I didn't want to try one of those just in case I liked it!

 

ROOG

Ok, so Squire is good, at the risk of being flamed, 'P'-bass or Jazz or other for beginner? 

steamabacus

I have a Squier P-bass 'special' (at least that's what the full-fat Fender version is called, the Squier actually only has 'Precision bass' on the headstock) which is an amalgam of the two - nice skinny Jazz neck (for my delicate guitarist's fingers), Precision body, one P-style pickup (in the usual mid-position), one J-style pickup (in the bridge position), two volumes/master tone.
Covers all basses  (groan :-S ) really well.

I've upgraded mine with Tonerider and Duncan pickups and changed the controls to master volume / pickup blend / master tone.

I also replaced the machine heads - the originals weren't terrible but I felt they could be better.

fretmeister

ROOG said:

Ok, so Squire is good, at the risk of being flamed, 'P'-bass or Jazz or other for beginner? 

They sound different, and the necks are quite different too. You need to try them

mart

fretmeister said:

ROOG said:

Ok, so Squire is good, at the risk of being flamed, 'P'-bass or Jazz or other for beginner? 

They sound different, and the necks are quite different too. You need to try them

Ideally you'd try them. But if you buy a good (VM or CV) second hand Squier P or J, you'll almost certainly be able to sell it on for about the same you paid for it, and then you can try the other.

I'm tempted to suggest a P is better for a beginner, because you don't need to worry about selecting a pickup or fiddling the balance between them - you just turn up and play. But it really doesn't matter too much.

ICBM

mart said:

Ideally you'd try them. But if you buy a good (VM or CV) second hand Squier P or J, you'll almost certainly be able to sell it on for about the same you paid for it, and then you can try the other.

I'm tempted to suggest a P is better for a beginner, because you don't need to worry about selecting a pickup or fiddling the balance between them - you just turn up and play.

Don't you do that anyway with a Jazz - the only difference being that there are three knobs to turn up full and not two?

The differences in the neck size and the body shape are probably the most important. The J seems to 'lean forward' more than the P due to the offset waist, so it can seem less well-balanced if you're short, but it has a smaller neck which helps if you have small hands... which unfortunately tends to go with being short! I think I prefer the P, just - and I like the sound of them better.

ROOG

ICBM said:

 

The differences in the neck size and the body shape are probably the most important. The J seems to 'lean forward' more than the P due to the offset waist, so it can seem less well-balanced if you're short, but it has a smaller neck which helps if you have small hands... which unfortunately tends to go with being short! I think I prefer the P, just - and I like the sound of them better.

 

Cheers chaps, I'm not too worried about the pick up options, as you say ICBM it's just one more knob, I just wondered if either was more manageable? I do have small hands and stubby fingers so a smaller neck may be better.

I quite agree with Fretmeister's earlier comment that I will have to try them but as I cant get to my local emporium just at the moment, I thought that I would ask, and although I would be quite happy to buy used, I need to be able to try the options first. 

I don't want to spend a lot, £200-300, but equally I hate buying poor quality and regretting it for ever after. Thanks for your comments chaps, if any other factors in choosing spring to mind please let me know. 

Shark_Eyes

To echo many of the comments above, a grippy strap certainly helps, although not on the SG style basses. I wanted one for ages but just wasn't able to get over the neck dive.

I also share your small hands / stubby fingers issues and I really loved my Warwick Corvette when I got it, their necks are super slim at the low end and my playing improved quite considerably. I don't know much about their Rockbass line but hopefully someone here can chip in.

steamabacus

I think a Jazz Bass neck is easier to manage if you're used to guitar. But the 'small fingers' excuse doesn't wash really - Tal Wilkenfeld hardly has large hands and she seems to manage ok.

What I will say, though, is that my Squier's jazz neck tends to shift around with the changing seasons and needs periodic truss rod tweaks. A larger precision neck may prove more stable down at that price point?

ROOG

steamabacus said:

I think a Jazz Bass neck is easier to manage if you're used to guitar. But the 'small fingers' excuse doesn't wash really - Tal Wilkenfeld hardly has large hands and she seems to manage ok.

What I will say, though, is that my Squier's jazz neck tends to shift around with the changing seasons and needs periodic truss rod tweaks. A larger precision neck may prove more stable down at that price point?

I know, stubby fingers are not an excuse :0) but every time I see some one demoing a product they seem to have "spider" hands, you know the type with a little body and great big long thin legs (fingers) that seem to know where to go.

I admit it I have finger envy!   

Thanks for your thoughts on neck stability too.

ICBM

steamabacus said:

What I will say, though, is that my Squier's jazz neck tends to shift around with the changing seasons and needs periodic truss rod tweaks. A larger precision neck may prove more stable down at that price point?

Not necessarily - the neck stability depends on the particular piece of wood and exactly how the grain runs through it, and if the particular piece of wood is humidity-sensitive, the larger it is the more it will move and the less the truss rod will be able to resist it.

ROOG

Never thought of it like that!

monquixote

I think Jazz Bass vs Precision is like Strat vs Tele. Everyone has a favorite and a good collection would include both. 

I tend to think of the Jazz as more funky and the Precision as more rocky, but I'm sure some people will feel the opposite. 

I prefer the Jazz because of the vast number of sounds available from the blend knob. 

In terms of balance a lot of the gibbo type things neck dive. More modern designs with elongated top horns are often better provided the bodies aren't too small (like a Bass Collection) 

I play a Warwick Streamer which hangs pretty well. 

topomorto

Using the strap button on the horn is like balancing on one leg instead of two IMO. strap attached to the headstock FTW!

mart

topomorto said:

Using the strap button on the horn is like balancing on one leg instead of two IMO. strap attached to the headstock FTW!

"FTW" meaning "for the Wyman"

With almost any electric bass if you use the bottom strap button and attach your strap to the headstock, then your bass will naturally balance almost vertically. That may suit Bill Wyman, but most of us want a gentler angle. Realistically the ideal balance for most of us needs the top strap button somewhere between the headstock and the top horn. 

ICBM

That's why vintage Fender basses have a button on the back of the headstock - so electric bassists could play 'upright'. It really makes a difference to the sound as well - you end up playing with your thumb on the side of the neck and plucking the string nearer the midpoint, much like a double bass. If you do that on a fretless you can get much closer to the sound of an upright than you might think.