Do I need to upgrade my Yamaha MSP5a monitors?

FreddieVanHalen

So...I'd been thinking about taking advantage of the trade in offer on Genelecs and going for a pair of 8040B.

However, it's still quite a bit to spend and being realistic, my home studio is just a typical 8 ' x 10 ' box and that's even before I've filled it with amps and furniture and stuff. I really don't have the appetite to go to any serious level with acoustic treatment either.

I'm not doing any real mixing work at the moment and probably wont be for a couple of years or more - I just use my monitors to listen to music, play along with jam tracks, and run amps simulations through when I feel like playing and practicing through the computer.

I don't need mega volume as I'm in a flat. I do like a decent amount of bass as I listen to quite a bit of dance/EDM.

So...do I realistically need to go out and spend a bunch of cash given that I've got a small room ? Would a pair of 8040s just be too much for a small space ?

Would really appreciate some thoughts on this!

spark240

Well....I didnt really need new monitors...but I had a brain spasm a few months ago and bought some Yamaha HS7's...

They are still in the boxes ! 

But there again...I seen some serious life events over that last few years...if you want them and the cash isnt go to break you then have em !

FreddieVanHalen

Thanks Spark - I could probably afford to just get them, but I have quite a few things on my wish list so don't want to spend if there's no point due to my small room and bad acoustics....

Maybe I just need to get myself down to a decent demo centre and see if the genelec distinguishes itself at lower volumes.

sweepy

I'd check out the s/h monitors from funkyjunk

 http://www.proaudioeurope.com

they usually have some quality deals

spark240

FreddieVanHalen said:

Thanks Spark - I could probably afford to just get them, but I have quite a few things on my wish list so don't want to spend if there's no point due to my small room and bad acoustics....

Maybe I just need to get myself down to a decent demo centre and see if the genelec distinguishes itself at lower volumes.

I found it really difficult to judge at the shop, I went more by reviews for my application, although I have mostly used Yamaha in the past so I suppoes slightly biased.

FreddieVanHalen

Thanks @sweepy - didn't know about that store will keep an eye out!

@spark240 - what was it that made it hard to judge in the shop? Would be interested to know to avoid mistakes. I was maybe thinking of taking my existing monitors along - if the new monitors don't sound hugely different then I'll probably just hold onto my old ones :-)

spark240

Well...The environment is never as your is at home, plus always take some recorded music that you know is fine, to test the store monitors.,

I mean....some monitors sounded great in the shop, but would they be the same in my bedroom?

Good luck

    

guitarfishbay

Genelecs have plenty of options to tweak the sound so you should be able to dial them in for your space. Room treatment is pretty crucial though, I would suggest looking at what your options are before buying a set of expensive monitors as you'll get a lot more out of them if the room is better treated,

Your profile states you are in London.  From what I understand (having never been) KMR Audio are really good for this kind of thing and I've read about some people demoing products at home (for a fee IIRC).  http://www.kmraudio.com/

Personally I would suggest doing as much listening as you can, use CDs you are familiar with etc.

The Genelec 8040s are nice and extend quite low for a speaker of that size.  Definitely check them out before buying, but they're a good quality speaker.

Heartfeltdawn

FreddieVanHalen said:

I'm not doing any real mixing work at the moment and probably wont be for a couple of years or more - I just use my monitors to listen to music, play along with jam tracks, and run amps simulations through when I feel like playing and practicing through the computer.

It sounds like a complete waste of cash. I'm seeing a normal price of £650 each, £1200 for the pair with the trade. 

http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/article/5569-trade-in-your-tweeters-for-genelecs.html

£1200 monitors in a small room with naff all treatment does sound like overkill. 

What do you want that your current monitors aren't doing? 

FreddieVanHalen

That is a good question Heartfeltdawn :-)

I'm not sure TBH, I've never really side by side compared my mid range Yamaha's to something allegedly better.

The Yamahas sound quite mid-range focussed and maybe a little boxy, and that does seem to be borne out in the reviews (which I did read after coming to that conclusion, honestly!).

That might be as much a function of my boxy little room as the monitors though. And the monitors are currently just plopped on my desk which I can't imagine is helping much at all.

I think I'm coming to the conclusion that it would be better to rearrange the room a little bit and get my yamahas on some decent stands first. If I do that and the boxiness isn't alleviated even at quiet volumes then I might think about auditioning some others...

Heartfeltdawn

Stands do make a big difference to the sound. I've only ever owned one pair of monitors, a set of passive Silver 5L closefield monitors I got cheap several years ago, but I have been fortunate to listen to those owned by friends and virtually all of them use stands. Are the monitors close to the wall at all? If so, drag them out a bit. 

£1200 just seems like a lot of cash to spend on one thing when spending smaller amounts on three or four things could do more to improve your sound. For example, what soundcard are you using? A better DAC may help you. Last year I bought a TC Electronic BMC-2 to act as a monitor controller for my two soundcards and loved it to bits. Today I received an SPL Crimson to act as my preamp/DI, monitor controller, ADC and DAC, and it's utterly brilliant. The £350 I spent on that will be mostly covered by selling the older gear it is replacing. You may find spending on other items will do far more to help your sound than spaffing a wedge on some monitors. 

Especially when Eve SC205's are way cheaper and sound bloody awesome

FreddieVanHalen

I'm using an Apogee Duet to do everything at the moment, I don't have separate monitor controlers, DAC, or any of that stuff...

Definitely decided now - zero point on upgrading my monitors until I've tested them on stands and been clear with myself about why I don't like them.

It will be hard to get them away from the wall due to the small size of the room but I could pull them forward maybe 6 or 7 inches. My desk space is currently into a corner (bit hard to avoid in such a small rectangle room!) but I'm thinking of moving that to the middle of one of the long sides of the rectangle.

I can't put them pointing "lengthways" down the room as one end has the window and the other has the door...

guitarfishbay

The Duet is a good quality interface, you won't need to buy anything else there.

You're making the right choice to address the room and placement issues first.

FWIW you can probably set the speakers up with the back to the windows (so you face the window) and get better results than having the speakers set up the way you're thinking of doing it.  If you want more detailed advice on something you could sign up to the gearslutz webforum and ask there https://www.gearslutz.com/board/studio-building-acoustics/

FreddieVanHalen

Thanks, just had a quick look around some of the stuff on there - lots of food for thought!

Heartfeltdawn

Yep, Duet is good quality so no need to upgrade there. Stands and maybe Mopads is a good way forward. 

guitarfishbay

If you want the advice from my own personal experience, the best thing you can do is put your speakers on stands and use a small and low desk.  This decouples the speakers and also minimises reflections from the desk.

I recently switched from a very large 'office' style desk to a really small individual computer one that is significantly smaller in all directions, and I've removed the wheels so it is lower to the ground to minimise reflections.  The difference in sound was huge for me.

I've got MoPads and they are ok, I've also tried the ISO acoustics stands, cheaper Samson stands, K+M Stands, and now have a set of Ultimate Support MS90s filled with sand (I'm sticking with these, keeping MoPads just in case I ever want to use them as they're probably not worth selling).

I personally prefer stands to anything placed on a desk, but I've only ever had low quality Ikea type desks on one level.  I see a lot of producers with proper console desks putting their speakers on the surface top but A) those are going to be really solid so from what I understand won't vibrate the same way, and the speakers are on a surface above the console which is angled so reflections are less of an issue.

I'm completely ITB, the only outboard gear I have is my interface and my Axe FX.  If you've got rack compressors/EQs etc you might be limited to how small you can get your desk.  But as far as cheap fixes go, shrinking your desk and getting stands will make a big difference.

While you're moving stuff around you should experiment with positioning and where you sit, if you have any leeway in that.  In the past year I've discovered my original position had quite a bad null in the bass region.  I've since improved my room treatment which has helped massively - but what helped even more was moving my listening position back a couple of inches.

Good luck and have fun, it is a long journey that never ends but it is very rewarding when you start making some progress.