Contemplating a Zendrive-alike as 1st pedal project build - advise?

Megii

So thinking about the idea of building myself a Zendrive clone type pedal. Not done such a thing before, although I do have some soldering experience as a result of making and modding various electric guitars. Wouldn't say I have a deep understanding of electronics at all. I am capable of working carefully and with attention to detail. So first off, would a zd clone be a realistic first project?

I guess I'm looking at some sort of kit - any recommendations of where to go for that? Also, I've been reading some stuff re the type of op amp chip being important. I don't know what an op amp is... , but is that true, and should I make sure I get a kit with the right type? According to this forum thread, an AD712 is correct, although a TLC2262CP is reckoned to be very good.

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/burnt-fingers-diy-effects/198935-zen-clone.html

Are any of the other components I might use important, or able to be upgraded for better sound quality? I would like the pedal to be as good as possible, even though it is my first attempt. Or should I just get a decent kit and build the thing, and stop asking questions about stuff that I don't understand anyway? Cheers for any advise though, I'll quit while I behind now...

thermionic

This kit. The opamp is socketed so you can try others (although I doubt you'd be able to discern much difference).

Megii

thermionic said:

This kit. The opamp is socketed so you can try others (although I doubt you'd be able to discern much difference).

Thank you - it does look good. Just reading through the instructions download, and wondering if I can figure out what all of it means. A bit of research needed perhaps.

frankus

Yes that is an awesome kit - I've made 2 now and I'll be making their Timmy very soon too.

My advice is change the 500k gain pot for a 1m gain pot

there are only a very few tricky things in that build for a beginner - getting the diodes around the right way and getting the electrolytic capacitors around the right way.. the good news is the board has a silk screen print on it making it very very clear how to orientate the parts.

Make sure you've got a good soldering iron and silver solder and you're made

Megii

Cheers for that @frankus - I will be having a go with this kit now, it should keep me occupied for a while, an interesting new direction for me, and cheaper than building another guitar - and I already have too many of those.

Just a few queries if anyone can help - in the instructions here it says

"NOTE: Check your pinout for

Q1-2. The 2N7000 supplied

with the kit need to be

reversed compared to the

print on the board."

...re 2 of the parts - so does that mean that the silk-screen print for those is the wrong way round? Guess so...

Also they say that the enclosure they supply won't take a battery, and old-fashioned as it may be, I would like my pedal to have that facility - so should I get a different enclosure from somewhere else? - and if so where and what enclosure would be better? I think I'd be happy enough with a blank enclosure and drilling holes in the right places.

Sorry again for all the irritating newby questions, just asking in case there is an easy answer, no worries if not. Do have a cheapo Maplins 35W soldering iron, but I'm thinking it might be a good time to upgrade to something a little posher, and maybe more like 25W?

frankus

That's a pretty good question I forgot it had those 2 transistors. To be honest with something like a transistor, I usually socket them to avoid damaging them so then it'd be a case of swapping them around...

The Enlightenment drive is a tiny tiny board. And the pots can be mounted onto the board... it has an LED out so apart from the jacks and the foot stop -- there's nothing really taking up space, I'd be surprised it the battery wouldn't fit in a 1590B enclosure .. like the original.

Andyjr1515

Hi @megii

The buildyourownclone.com ranges are good kits too for starters.  They can be got in the uk at http://www.vibe-o-tronic.co.uk/

I've built 3 and been pleased with them all.  Whatever, you will want a small-bit soldering iron - the stations on the PCBs are tiny

Andy

Andyjr1515

Andyjr1515 said:

Hi @megii

The buildyourownclone.com ranges are good kits too for starters.  They can be got in the uk at http://www.vibe-o-tronic.co.uk/

I've built 3 and been pleased with them all.  Whatever, you will want a small-bit soldering iron - the stations on the PCBs are tiny

Andy

Forgot to say - the step by step instructions can be downloaded free from their site for all of the pedal kits so you can judge the complexity and if you want to tweak and experiment with alternative opamps, etc

Megii

frankus said:

That's a pretty good question I forgot it had those 2 transistors. To be honest with something like a transistor, I usually socket them to avoid damaging them so then it'd be a case of swapping them around...

The Enlightenment drive is a tiny tiny board. And the pots can be mounted onto the board... it has an LED out so apart from the jacks and the foot stop -- there's nothing really taking up space, I'd be surprised it the battery wouldn't fit in a 1590B enclosure .. like the original.

I didn't even realise they were transistors - and what exactly is a transistor? or a diode? or an opamp chip? or... ...clearly I need to educate myself a bit. Thank you very much for your great advise though @frankus. Hope not an annoying question if I ask how I would go about socketing the transistors? What kind of socket thingy would I buy, and where?

Re the enclosure, I guess maybe they are just covering themselves in case, so that's all good if I can stick to using the type they supply to keep things as straightforward as possible. Do like the idea of mounting the pots on the board - that would seem to me a good way to keep things as tidy as possible. Cheers again for the help and encouragement - looking forward to getting into this whole thing.

Megii

Andyjr1515 said:

Hi @megii

The buildyourownclone.com ranges are good kits too for starters.  They can be got in the uk at http://www.vibe-o-tronic.co.uk/

I've built 3 and been pleased with them all.  Whatever, you will want a small-bit soldering iron - the stations on the PCBs are tiny

Andy

Cheers Andy - I've heard that the BYOC stuff is very good, so that could be one for the future. I've got the old GAS for a Zendrive clone to start with though - I love that smooth, slightly compressed but responsive overdrive tone they can get, having compared various pedal demos on Youtube. There are some other nice pedals (especially the overdrives) around too, but the ZD type seems a good place to start.

Will get myself a good small-bit soldering iron - I think that's one place where I should have the right kit for the job.

frankus

Megii said:

frankus said:

That's a pretty good question I forgot it had those 2 transistors. To be honest with something like a transistor, I usually socket them to avoid damaging them so then it'd be a case of swapping them around...

The Enlightenment drive is a tiny tiny board. And the pots can be mounted onto the board... it has an LED out so apart from the jacks and the foot stop -- there's nothing really taking up space, I'd be surprised it the battery wouldn't fit in a 1590B enclosure .. like the original.

I didn't even realise they were transistors - and what exactly is a transistor? or a diode? or an opamp chip? or... ...clearly I need to educate myself a bit. Thank you very much for your great advise though @frankus. Hope not an annoying question if I ask how I would go about socketing the transistors? What kind of socket thingy would I buy, and where?

This kind stuff : http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/254mm-pin-strip-jw59p

probably much keeper from bitsbox or similar

Megii

frankus said:

Megii said:

frankus said:

That's a pretty good question I forgot it had those 2 transistors. To be honest with something like a transistor, I usually socket them to avoid damaging them so then it'd be a case of swapping them around...

The Enlightenment drive is a tiny tiny board. And the pots can be mounted onto the board... it has an LED out so apart from the jacks and the foot stop -- there's nothing really taking up space, I'd be surprised it the battery wouldn't fit in a 1590B enclosure .. like the original.

I didn't even realise they were transistors - and what exactly is a transistor? or a diode? or an opamp chip? or... ...clearly I need to educate myself a bit. Thank you very much for your great advise though @frankus. Hope not an annoying question if I ask how I would go about socketing the transistors? What kind of socket thingy would I buy, and where?

This kind stuff : http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/254mm-pin-strip-jw59p

probably much keeper from bitsbox or similar

Brilliant, cheers! Am really glad I asked about it all on here now, I already feel I've picked up some great tips.

equalsql

Hi Meggi,

If you fancy spending a bit less, and don't mind playing with vero-board then Bitsbox have a great selection of kits.. and sell all the additional items that you might need.  I use them a lot for small components and they are an excellent little company to deal with.

http://www.bitsbox.co.uk/?main_page=index&cPath=280_281

Corvus

My first kit was a Zen from Bitsbox, though the pedalparts one has better destructions with a testing stage, and a PCB. Mine is on veroboard. The kit didn't have an LED so I added that.

Before that I hadn't done much soldering except in occasional car & bike wiring, and knew nowt about pedal jargon. So if a peasant like me can do it, anyone can... The Zen wasn't quite what I expected, but rocks when run into a Timmy, so it stays on my board. Good luck and have fun with it

frankus

Practicing soldering parts (loads of spare resistors) to a board is a great exercise to get a feel for how to solder neatly and hold the tip.

I remember dismissing this at first but these days I use the neatness of a soldered connection as a reassurance that it works - as a first pass during debugging.

These days I clip the legs before I solder and I've spent about £10 on tip cleaning "wool", desolder and sponge stuff.

ChrisMusic

frankus said:   ...get a feel for how to solder neatly and hold the tip. 

Holding the tip of your soldering iron, while it is on, is a mistake you will only make once   

Yes I know what you meant, and good advice to practice, tinned copper wire is the cheapest material for that if you have any to hand, along with Veroboard if you want to practice in the full context, just make up lots of short links and practice away.  There was an excellent post from @Danny1969 a while back on soldering practice technique.

Also use either silver solder or old skool lead/tin multicore.  You will need less heat and can more easily spot "dry" joints and remedy it.

Splaying leads out will hold most components in place while you snip the leads and solder.

Leaving the most heat sensitive components till the last pass to fit and solder is a wise move, unless you socket them, which is what I would recommend.  That is anything which is a semiconductor: diodes (take care with glass cases on them), transistors, which are the building blocks of ICs (integrated circuits) or "chips" (because they are formed from small pieces or "chips" of silicon) like OP amps, memory chips, CPUs etc.  Socketing makes it easy to swop out for tone tests, or to replace a faulty IC easily.

Number one tip for consistent and quality solder joints - keep the tip of your iron hot, clean and "tinned".

As with any engineering task, get good tools, cheap is nearly always a bad compromise.  Good tools will last, and the right tool for the right job makes everything easier IMO.

Megii

equalsql said:

Hi Meggi,

If you fancy spending a bit less, and don't mind playing with vero-board then Bitsbox have a great selection of kits.. and sell all the additional items that you might need.  I use them a lot for small components and they are an excellent little company to deal with.

http://www.bitsbox.co.uk/?main_page=index&cPath=280_281

Appreciate the link, cheers! Think I'll probably stick to the pedelparts kit for this first project, but I'm certain I will be finding bitsbox very useful in the future. Exactly what is veroboard? lol - and how does one go about using it to build up a circuit? There is much I need to learn... 

Megii

Corvus said:

My first kit was a Zen from Bitsbox, though the pedalparts one has better destructions with a testing stage, and a PCB. Mine is on veroboard. The kit didn't have an LED so I added that.

Before that I hadn't done much soldering except in occasional car & bike wiring, and knew nowt about pedal jargon. So if a peasant like me can do it, anyone can... The Zen wasn't quite what I expected, but rocks when run into a Timmy, so it stays on my board. Good luck and have fun with it

Cheers, and thanks for the encouragement. I really do feel very clueless about the whole electronics/pedal-building world, and it's jargon, at the moment, but am determined to learn and get into it. One has to start somewhere I guess. Maybe the 2nd project for me could be a Timmy, given what you say.

Megii

frankus said:

Practicing soldering parts (loads of spare resistors) to a board is a great exercise to get a feel for how to solder neatly and hold the tip.

I remember dismissing this at first but these days I use the neatness of a soldered connection as a reassurance that it works - as a first pass during debugging.

These days I clip the legs before I solder and I've spent about £10 on tip cleaning "wool", desolder and sponge stuff.

Is debugging a common requirement? I was hoping that neat, careful work would tend to avoid any problems... Take your point re the practice, cheers!

Megii

ChrisMusic said:

frankus said:   ...get a feel for how to solder neatly and hold the tip. 

Holding the tip of your soldering iron, while it is on, is a mistake you will only make once   

Yes I know what you meant, and good advice to practice, tinned copper wire is the cheapest material for that if you have any to hand, along with Veroboard if you want to practice in the full context, just make up lots of short links and practice away.  There was an excellent post from @Danny1969 a while back on soldering practice technique.

Also use either silver solder or old skool lead/tin multicore.  You will need less heat and can more easily spot "dry" joints and remedy it.

Splaying leads out will hold most components in place while you snip the leads and solder.

Leaving the most heat sensitive components till the last pass to fit and solder is a wise move, unless you socket them, which is what I would recommend.  That is anything which is a semiconductor: diodes (take care with glass cases on them), transistors, which are the building blocks of ICs (integrated circuits) or "chips" (because they are formed from small pieces or "chips" of silicon) like OP amps, memory chips, CPUs etc.  Socketing makes it easy to swop out for tone tests, or to replace a faulty IC easily.

Number one tip for consistent and quality solder joints - keep the tip of your iron hot, clean and "tinned".

As with any engineering task, get good tools, cheap is nearly always a bad compromise.  Good tools will last, and the right tool for the right job makes everything easier IMO.

I have at least already made the holding the tip error, some years ago, when doing wiring for a guitar. "Ouch" doesn't quite capture the experience does it? There is also a lovely burn mark still visible on a thankfully not important carpet, where I dropped the iron...

Thank you very much for all the other advice, it will be listened to. Already have supplies of both types of solder. Do like the idea of socketing heat-sensitive components I must say.

Does anyone have any recommended websites where a complete newb to all this stuff can educate themselves from scratch? Some of the helpful beginners guide type things I've found still use jargon, without explaining it all.

Also, if you are inclined, please anyone, do recommend the various bits of soldering and associated kit I might find useful - links to specific good bets even would be good, cheers.

frankus

It really depends how often you do it - I made a classic mistake in writing just now (holding the tip d'uh) that's obvious, I've been writing for nearly 40 years I still make mistakes

It's really about being methodical and I'm not ultra great at that - I made a madbeans delay pedal in about 2 hours the other week - neat soldering and worked almost first time.. a tiny strand of wire was sending some of the signal to ground. It took about 5 minutes looking at the pcb to find it.. yay for neat soldering!

It didn't take long to identify that - all my parts are in labelled drawers but I also multimetered the resistors and ensured the capacitors were the right ones BEFORE I soldered them in, no assuming even though I'd been careful in selecting the pieces.

A lot of effort first will save time in debugging later.

It's not easy if you've got kids or other demands on your time, it's taken me about 6 months to finish making a Klon