The F1 thread

Heartfeltdawn

stickyfiddle said:

Of course. I understand the economics of it, just wish they'd get together and all tell Bernie to shove it. 

Shame Lotus won't now be joining FI and Sauber in the EU thing.

F1 teams acting together for the good of the sport? Good one

Force India lodging a complaint about improper financial arrangements is hilarious considering Vijay Mallya is named as a 'will defaulter' by 17 different banks and blackmailed the Indian government into bailing out Kingfisher Airlines by threatening to ramp up the price of booze. 

Fretwired

Heartfeltdawn said:

stickyfiddle said:

Of course. I understand the economics of it, just wish they'd get together and all tell Bernie to shove it. 

Shame Lotus won't now be joining FI and Sauber in the EU thing.

F1 teams acting together for the good of the sport? Good one

Force India lodging a complaint about improper financial arrangements is hilarious considering Vijay Mallya is named as a 'will defaulter' by 17 different banks and blackmailed the Indian government into bailing out Kingfisher Airlines by threatening to ramp up the price of booze. 

Bernie's probably eyeing up VJ as his replacement ... :-)

MattFGBI

stickyfiddle said:

chillidoggy said:

Button being linked to the new Renault team for next year. I can see that might actually have some legs.

They should be happy to pay him plenty, and frankly can't be any worse than McLaren. If I'm right that they have big changes planned for the engine next year it could be a goer. And Prost is a JB fan, iirc- Jenson's always been like him than Senna, style-wise.

I'd like to see JB go there.  It's a good team with good people and a history of producing decent cars. The Renault might not be the best engine but I'm sure it will be more competitive next year. 

chillidoggy

If he does go there, at least he's pretty much guaranteed to be further up the field than he is right now.

Fretwired

Bernie is a man with a plan - apparently Mercedes and Ferrari don't want to give Red Bull engines so Bernie's solution is to get Ferrari or Mercedes to give Red Bull a 2015 spec engine for two years in the hope VW joins the sport. That way Ferrari and Mercedes can have an advantage ... can't see that working Bernie.

Heartfeltdawn

chillidoggy said:

If he does go there, at least he's pretty much guaranteed to be further up the field than he is right now.

If he swapped his McLaren for a donkey, he'd be further up the grid than he is now. 

chillidoggy

Heartfeltdawn said:

chillidoggy said:

If he does go there, at least he's pretty much guaranteed to be further up the field than he is right now.

If he swapped his McLaren for a donkey, he'd be further up the grid than he is now. 

He'd look a bit of an ass, though.

ROOG

Heartfeltdawn said:

chillidoggy said:

If he does go there, at least he's pretty much guaranteed to be further up the field than he is right now.

If he swapped his McLaren for a donkey, he'd be further up the grid than he is now. 

Putting a few donkey's on the track, that would liven things up a bit!

Fretwired

ROOG said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

chillidoggy said:

If he does go there, at least he's pretty much guaranteed to be further up the field than he is right now.

If he swapped his McLaren for a donkey, he'd be further up the grid than he is now. 

Putting a few donkey's on the track, that would liven things up a bit!

No chance. They're all running the FIA.

Heartfeltdawn

ROOG said:Putting a few donkey's on the track, that would liven things up a bit!

1 Maldonado = a whole herd of donkeys

chillidoggy

A herd of donkeys would cause less damage.

Fretwired

Heartfeltdawn said:

ROOG said:Putting a few donkey's on the track, that would liven things up a bit!

1 Maldonado = a whole herd of donkeys

Well he's South American - probably treats his car like his donkey. Come to think of it he should move to McLaren - they have a donkey of a car. Even Maldonado would have difficulty hitting anyone in a McLaren.

And with Manor getting Mercedes engines and tech McLaren could be the team right at the back of the pit lane. Nice job Ron.

HAL9000

stickyfiddle said:

So to sum up, F1's key problems are:

1. The money. Bernie's got all of it. Ferrari, Mercedes and Red Bull all get too much (particularly Ferrari) so no little guys stand a chance of getting a foothold in the sport. We lost Caterham last year, and since then have almost lost Lotus, Force India, Manor and Sauber, and might also lose RB and Toro Rosso because they're spending shitloads and seeing too small a marketing return. It's ABSURD.

2. The rules. If you don't get it right by January, you've already lost. No testing and tokens for engine dev make it impossible.

3. The engines. Hybrids seem a good idea, but at the moment they're just too bloody hard to develop. And even if you work out *how* to develop them to make them work better, see #2. I'd wager Renault have got a better engine on the dyno that they're not allowed to use. Honda probably aren't as far down the line but it sounds like they're in the same position. 

4. The aero. Can't follow closely, can't overtake. Aero is now so hilariously complex that, again, little guys have no chance. 2-element front wings and a bit of ground effect allowed would make a huge difference to dev costs and racing

5. Tyres. Oh god, the tyres. They're just shit. They were great fun when new and unpredictable, but now they're shitty but all the teams know how to work them so there's no unpredictability, just the shitness. Next year might make it better - 3 compounds per weekend and only 1 mandatory prime, so half a chance teams can try different strategies.

6. New teams/manufacturers. Well, there aren't any. Haas are trying, but only with major support from Ferrari by the sounds of it. No engine manufacturer will see Honda's effort and go "Great! That's worth spending $300 million on!"

Have I missed anything?

Yes, those drivers that only get a drive because they bring huge amounts of sponsorship to the team. You couldn't get to play for a Championship League team by bringing a shedload of money to the party. Why should F1 be different?

The fact that Bernie wants so much money that many countries can only hold a GP if their governments subsidise the event. OK, I can understand subsidising, say, the Olympics, but any other sporting event should be able to take place without government help. It can't be right that without subsidies many circuits would be left with not much more than exhaust smoke.

stickyfiddle

JB confirmed at McLaren. Poor sod. I'll still be queuing for that handshake in Abu Dhabi

http://www.mclaren.com/formula1/team/jenson-button/mclaren-honda-confirms-jenson-button-for-2016/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=Jenson

EDIT: Looks like they've finally gained a sponsor rather than losing one, as well! 

http://www.mclaren.com/formula1/inside-the-mtc/chandon-becomes-new-official-partner-of-mclaren-honda/

Richardj

Ron doesn't deserve that kind of loyalty given how indifferent he appears (in public anyway) to his drivers.

Or Honda have made it worth Jensen's while staying.

Heartfeltdawn

HAL9000 said:Yes, those drivers that only get a drive because they bring huge amounts of sponsorship to the team. You couldn't get to play for a Championship League team by bringing a shedload of money to the party. Why should F1 be different?The fact that Bernie wants so much money that many countries can only hold a GP if their governments subsidise the event. OK, I can understand subsidising, say, the Olympics, but any other sporting event should be able to take place without government help. It can't be right that without subsidies many circuits would be left with not much more than exhaust smoke.

Why should the Olympics get taxpayer's cash and not other things? The IOC is not an organisation that is immune from corruption, there are plenty of questions about the tax arrangements for Olympic events, and the highest profile events (track and field) feature some of the highest profile sports cheating on the planet. Too much self-interest at work in many cases. Something like the Olympic stadium going to West Ham is painfully lacking in transparency. 

Heartfeltdawn

stickyfiddle said:

JB confirmed at McLaren. Poor sod. I'll still be queuing for that handshake in Abu Dhabi

http://www.mclaren.com/formula1/team/jenson-button/mclaren-honda-confirms-jenson-button-for-2016/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=Jenson

EDIT: Looks like they've finally gained a sponsor rather than losing one, as well! 

http://www.mclaren.com/formula1/inside-the-mtc/chandon-becomes-new-official-partner-of-mclaren-honda/

From the press release on the McLaren website:

"The partnership perfectly highlights Chandon’s open spirit, ‘joie de vivre’ and spontaneous approach to life."

£100 to anyone who could spot the 'joie de vivre' in Ferdy and Jenson's post-race interviews in Japan

Fretwired

Richardj said:

Or Honda have made it worth Jensen's while staying.

^^

This.

Jenson is popular in Japan. Check the Japanese crowd .. lots of Jenson hats .. very few Fernando ..

Heartfeltdawn

^^

Even fewer Bernie hats. Then again, I've seen more blacked up Spanish fans than I've seen pro-Bernie fans in the normal spectator areas

Fretwired

Heartfeltdawn said:

^^

Even fewer Bernie hats. Then again, I've seen more blacked up Spanish fans than I've seen pro-Bernie fans in the normal spectator areas

:-)

I also wonder if Ron thinks Alonso might jump ship to Mercedes or Ferrari in the event Red Bull pull out? Bernie's plan is for the top teams to run three cars to keep the numbers up.