The F1 thread

octatonic

That was clearly Rosberg's fault.

Fretwired

Hamilton now called to the Stewards ...

Paul_C

I'm going to watch the race on C4 in a minute, but I've seen the incident on the Sky Sports website - Rosberg needs lessons in how to defend without making himself look like a child who's just had his rattle taken away from him and tried to push the other kid over. Like in Spain and another race (I can't remember where), being in front doesn't give you carte blanche to just shove someone off the road, you have to make at least some effort to give them room.

As I just posted on FB, A couple of Sundays ago I took my daughter Demi to her local park and while she was happily swinging a couple of adults were sitting nearby, each with a child, and one parent offered a cupcake to the child that wasn't hers first, then gave her daughter her cupcake. This started her daughter wailing almost non-stop for about 40 mins as she wanted to be first - I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the little girl's name was Nico.

Fretwired

Rosberg - 10 second penalty and two points on his licence. Wonder what Lauda will say now ...

Paul_C

Just watched Rosberg pass Hulkenberg (Lap 7) at the same corner, doing pretty much what Hamilton did to him, except Hulkenberg didn't go straight on and into the side of him, he turned the corner

holnrew

If you're not first you're last

sinbaadi

Typical Rosberg to be honest. I don't dislike him but he just comes across as desperate so often.
Perhaps it's basically childishness, or maybe it's a deep-seated belief that when it comes to the crunch, Hamilton is just better than he is.

Garthy

Yet another stupid decision by Martin Donnelly. Not fit to be a steward.

sweepy

Rosberg's penalty is pointless, no pun intended, give him a five grid penalty for Silverstone, you'll hear the whinging all the way in Buckingham

Fretwired

Garthy said:

Yet another stupid decision by Martin Donnelly. Not fit to be a steward.

@Garthy Explain.

Fretwired

sweepy said:

Rosberg's penalty is pointless, no pun intended, give him a five grid penalty for Silverstone, you'll hear the whinging all the way in Buckingham

I think it was fair - it was a blue on blue. Rosberg suffered by slipping from first to fourth.

Heartfeltdawn

Garthy said:

I just want to see a fucking race, because of those ridiculous radio rules we lost 2 guys that had a legitimate shot for the win, we lost 4 guys because  those cunts at Pirelli cannot make tyres of an acceptable standard. The Parc Ferme rules are shit, the parts longevity rules are shit, the radio rule is shit, the tyre rules are shit and Pirelli are shit. I don't normally mind RBR and Mclaren having egg on their faces but having that with all of the above on Sunday was just too much.

Pirelli are asked to make the tyres that way. One wonders why they stick it out. Whereas there are aims to produce the best bybrid, the best aero, development right down to shaving a few grams off of wheelnuts, the part that connects car to track is made intentionally shit. It's like the IOC demanding that Puma make purposefully shite running spikes on the grounds that it'd make the 100 metres more fun. 

Heartfeltdawn

stickyfiddle said:

Crikey - just watched my first Formula E race in about a year. Blinding good racing! Prost and Senna on the podium, and tomorrow's title decider will be awesome.

I was there yesterday. Have enjoyed it since it started and that was my first live experience. As tight as the track looks on camera, it's even more absurd in person yet overtakes do happen.It isn't F1 and should be enjoyed on its merits. Certainly the quality of driver there is not low. 

SO I have to watch the final race later on tonight plus the Blacnpain Sprint Main Race and the IMSA 6 hours of Watkins Glen...  

Fretwired

Rosberg's in denial .. :-)

"They gave me the blame, which sucks," he said. "I'm of a different opinion, but that doesn't help."

The German said: "I was in the battle and I had the strong inside position and I was surprised Lewis turned in where I was."

sweepy

It's a non-penalty penalty, Rosberg still kept his points with the 10 second penalty and the points on his licence are effectively a gentle ticking off, neither here nor there. Watching it again, Toto Woolf's explanation that Rosberg had a brake issue just makes Rosberg's driving seem more petulant, he could afford to finish second and still lead the championship, where a collision could have returned 0 points. Personally I'd have given him a 5 place grid penalty for the next race and force him to have a dummy stencilled on his helmet.

Fretwired

Wolff blames Hamilton .. he shouldn't have tried to overtake on the last lap. Hamilton should find a new team ....

chillidoggy

I'm no fan of Hamster, but not colliding with your team mate is right at the top of things not to do. I think Rosberg was always going to risk a swerve, or a dodgy move, and Hamster failed to realise it.

But, like the EU referendum, the decision has been made and they're going to have to suck it up. The good thing is, the championship is race between them is still open.

darcym

so despite me not enjoying the racing this year, it's pretty hard not to be absorbed by the inter-team fight again.

It's pretty easy to blame Rosberg here - and to a degree, rightly so, if you watch the incar on him, he's late slowing the card down on the brakes (with a brake problem) but he's late on the turn in too, probably partially due to the speed not being scrubbed off so he can't turn in until there is grip on the front end and his tyres are shot, he was also probably a bit later on the brakes due to defending the position.

He put himself in that risky position, fading breaks, poor front tyres, and was it seems suffered poor judgement trying to strong arm Hamilton. It's pretty fair to say he took his chance, and it didn't pay off, he ended up fourth rather than second playing it safe, he "lost".

The flip side of this is that Hamilton needs a few collisions, the approach Rosberg took is a position Hamilton takes and is often cheered for (which I don't agree with) in that either on the attack, "I'm coming through, either move or I'll take us both out" - look at Canada and a few others (can't think of the exact circuits off the top of my head but I can dig them out if anyones interested).

I'm not just talking about this year, but I'm talking about in general, this "move or we both go out...maybe" approach is what mostly got Hamilton this amazing over taker reputation, and of course raw speed and ability.

When Hamilton is on the defensive, the approach is very similar, I will leave no room and will keep squeezing you until you back off and lose some time or risk both of us going out.

This is no different than what Rosberg did in Austria, if Hamilton was in doubt, he should have waited for the turn in from Rosberg and tried to cut back until him, OR slow down, concede the overtake wasn't going to happen at that corner and tried again, but he turned in anyway, although in fairness they where both in the corner pretty deep, so the slow down would have been quiet extreme.

Hamilton is under the impression that no-one should try to pass him, and he should not be slowed down passing someone just because he is quicker, so he needs a few collisions like this (although he came off well in this one) as we seem to applaud this "move or we'll both go out" style of driving.

all very easy to see in multiple slow down replays, not too easy in the heat of racing.

Edit - found a quick example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btUnEasFtNQ

similar situation, Austin 2015 although no car problems, solid late break, speed advantage, but when the overtake is done instead of giving the room, Hamilton comes across and runs Rosberg wide, forcing him to back off, and thus losing time/speed and being unable to come back at him.

This is what I think Rosberg was trying to do, the difference was Hamilton didn't back off to lose the time, so there was a crash.

--- additional edit ---

2011 against Massa is a good few examples of this "I'm coming through - so you have to move" approach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M_ZTY0xWvM

two very dubious ones in there.

That said for every 3 of these bully overtakes, there is normally one fantastic clean over take.

stickyfiddle

I think it's Rosberg's fault, as he clearly didn't leave any room at all, but at the same time I think that's what any champion would have done if fighting for a title against only his teammate. 

Vettel? Yep

Schumacher? Yep

Alonso? Yep

Hamilton? Probably

Senna? You betcha

Button? Maybe not, but perhaps that's partly why he's only got one title (much as I love him)

Either way, neither of them were going to yield and we'll see it happen again at least once before the season it done. 

Net result was always going to this way with the stewards even if Ham had all-but-100% at fault, as the stewards historically always go with a position that keeps the championship close, provided the situation could remotely be described as a racing incident. 

boogieman

Hamilton had the nose of his car well past Rosberg going into the corner. I thought there was a rule that once you were in that position the other driver has to concede the position and leave room to pass? I'm not a particular fan of either Merc driver but Rosberg definitely looked in the wrong on this one. His sulky kid act afterwards was ridiculous too, I don't think he'll be driving for Merc next season.