The F1 thread

Fretwired

Garthy said:

I hope Honda sue the arse off Mclaren and get their billion dollars back.

What if it's Honda that wants to quit? This must be damaging their brand and if there's no chance of catching up with Mercedes I'm pretty sure the shareholders will want to quit F1 for good.

Garthy

Fretwired said:

Garthy said:

I hope Honda sue the arse off Mclaren and get their billion dollars back.

What if it's Honda that wants to quit? This must be damaging their brand and if there's no chance of catching up with Mercedes I'm pretty sure the shareholders will want to quit F1 for good.

Mansour Ojjeh approached Mercedes before the 2017 car was even launched. The engine is working in the dyno cell and on the test rig, it doesn't work in the car...

TimmyO

And I'm handsome in my head, but not in the real world. 

Garthy

TimmyO said:

And I'm handsome in my head, but not in the real world. 

While I'm sure that's a sobering realisation, what's that got to do with the price of fish?

TimmyO

It's an observation on how useful an engine that only works outside the car is. 

Garthy

TimmyO said:

It's an observation on how useful an engine that only works outside the car is. 

You don't seem to be aware that it isn't like dropping a small block Chevy into an old Rover.  For instance there is a problem with the electrical loom overheating and shorting out, the loom is designed and built by McLaren, most of the plumbing is built by McLaren, the hydraulics are by McLaren, the drivetrain is shaking itself to bits but is it Hondas firing order, the shorter crank or Mclaren's gearbox causing the oscillations or a combination of all of the above? Is it the small air intakes causing the MGUH to overheat - again it doesn't happen in the dyno so is it another correlation issue between CFD & wind tunnel and the track that has plagued McLaren for 11 seasons? 

Fretwired

Garthy said:

TimmyO said:

It's an observation on how useful an engine that only works outside the car is. 

You don't seem to be aware that it isn't like dropping a small block Chevy into an old Rover.  For instance there is a problem with the electrical loom overheating and shorting out, the loom is designed and built by McLaren, most of the plumbing is built by McLaren, the hydraulics are by McLaren, the drivetrain is shaking itself to bits but is it Hondas firing order, the shorter crank or Mclaren's gearbox causing the oscillations or a combination of all of the above? Is it the small air intakes causing the MGUH to overheat - again it doesn't happen in the dyno so is it another correlation issue between CFD & wind tunnel and the track that has plagued McLaren for 11 seasons? 

What you say is true. However, when the engine works it is 30kmh slower on the straits than the Mercedes engine. The Honda engine's turbine is smaller than other manufacturers and whilst the the initial throttle response is very good once the car starts hitting top speed, it can’t harvest as much energy as those with bigger turbines. Power levels are not competitive making the McLaren slower in a straight line than its rivals with a noticeable drop-off at the end of long straights which is where Alonso was  mugged by faster cars in many races during 2016.

Garthy

Fretwired said:

Garthy said:

TimmyO said:

It's an observation on how useful an engine that only works outside the car is. 

You don't seem to be aware that it isn't like dropping a small block Chevy into an old Rover.  For instance there is a problem with the electrical loom overheating and shorting out, the loom is designed and built by McLaren, most of the plumbing is built by McLaren, the hydraulics are by McLaren, the drivetrain is shaking itself to bits but is it Hondas firing order, the shorter crank or Mclaren's gearbox causing the oscillations or a combination of all of the above? Is it the small air intakes causing the MGUH to overheat - again it doesn't happen in the dyno so is it another correlation issue between CFD & wind tunnel and the track that has plagued McLaren for 11 seasons? 

What you say is true. However, when the engine works it is 30kmh slower on the straits than the Mercedes engine. The Honda engine's turbine is smaller than other manufacturers and whilst the the initial throttle response is very good once the car starts hitting top speed, it can’t harvest as much energy as those with bigger turbines. Power levels are not competitive making the McLaren slower in a straight line than its rivals with a noticeable drop-off at the end of long straights which is where Alonso was  mugged by faster cars in many races during 2016.

I thought they had abandoned the small turbo and copied the Mercedes architecture. They were running a lower power  due to excessive heat in Spain.

Fretwired

Garthy said:

Fretwired said:

Garthy said:

TimmyO said:

It's an observation on how useful an engine that only works outside the car is. 

You don't seem to be aware that it isn't like dropping a small block Chevy into an old Rover.  For instance there is a problem with the electrical loom overheating and shorting out, the loom is designed and built by McLaren, most of the plumbing is built by McLaren, the hydraulics are by McLaren, the drivetrain is shaking itself to bits but is it Hondas firing order, the shorter crank or Mclaren's gearbox causing the oscillations or a combination of all of the above? Is it the small air intakes causing the MGUH to overheat - again it doesn't happen in the dyno so is it another correlation issue between CFD & wind tunnel and the track that has plagued McLaren for 11 seasons? 

What you say is true. However, when the engine works it is 30kmh slower on the straits than the Mercedes engine. The Honda engine's turbine is smaller than other manufacturers and whilst the the initial throttle response is very good once the car starts hitting top speed, it can’t harvest as much energy as those with bigger turbines. Power levels are not competitive making the McLaren slower in a straight line than its rivals with a noticeable drop-off at the end of long straights which is where Alonso was  mugged by faster cars in many races during 2016.

I thought they had abandoned the small turbo and copied the Mercedes architecture. They were running a lower power  due to excessive heat in Spain.

Honda binned the split turbo but they can't easily copy Mercedes. The power plant has been redesigned but there's a limit to what can be achieved in the timescale .. Honda have said what they are doing is 'risky' ..

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128097

Garthy

The risky thing is the TJI ignition, get it wrong and the flame front meets the piston on the up stroke.

FX_Munkee

As far as I understand it, Honda had ditched the small turbo in the V and gone for the split turbine/impeller setup used by Mercedes. I must admit my engineering head is still fascinated how Mercedes have managed to design the coupling shaft (and bearings) between the turbine and impeller, the rest I can do but that bit still boggles my mind.

TimmyO

Garthy said:

TimmyO said:

It's an observation on how useful an engine that only works outside the car is. 

You don't seem to be aware that it isn't like dropping a small block Chevy into an old Rover.  

No my decade as a military aero engine propulsion specialist clearly left me ill-prepared for this 

Garthy

TimmyO said:

Garthy said:

TimmyO said:

It's an observation on how useful an engine that only works outside the car is. 

You don't seem to be aware that it isn't like dropping a small block Chevy into an old Rover.  

No my decade as a military aero engine propulsion specialist clearly left me ill-prepared for this 

So you should know better then, great. The rest of the post still stands.

fretmeister

Cut the bollocks.

Name the podium for Sunday.

I'm getting a very strange feeling about it, so...

Raikonnen
Hamilton
Vettel.

I watched most of the testing stuff, and Kimi is strutting like he did in 2007. It won't last beyond the frst time he spots an ice cream truck, but he's looking fast.

Fretwired

Hamilton
Verstappen
Vettel

Boromedic

Hamilton (reliability allowing if last years saboteur has left)
Ricciardo
Verstappen

stickyfiddle

I'm gonna go

Hamilton
Vettel
Bottas

I reckon Ferrari have made strides but I just can't see them beating the almighty sandbaggers in the Merc garage. Bottas will beat Lewis in some races this year, but not Oz.  I don't think the RBs are going to be quick enough, and I'm hoping Massa can give them a fight as it sounds like the new cars are right up his alley. 

Do we know if Lewis has got the championship winning engineers again this year? I'm sure the other guys are just as fantastic at their jobs, but having the "better" half of the team would be a big psychological boost to any driver.

Fretwired

stickyfiddle said:

I'm gonna go

Hamilton
Vettel
Bottas

I reckon Ferrari have made strides but I just can't see them beating the almighty sandbaggers in the Merc garage. Bottas will beat Lewis in some races this year, but not Oz.  I don't think the RBs are going to be quick enough, and I'm hoping Massa can give them a fight as it sounds like the new cars are right up his alley. 

Do we know if Lewis has got the championship winning engineers again this year? I'm sure the other guys are just as fantastic at their jobs, but having the "better" half of the team would be a big psychological boost to any driver.

Bottas is on a one year deal so I guess Lewis will be given the best guys to ensure success. It would be great if Alonso was partnered with Hamilton at Merc for 2018.

stickyfiddle

Fretwired said:

stickyfiddle said:

I'm gonna go

Hamilton
Vettel
Bottas

I reckon Ferrari have made strides but I just can't see them beating the almighty sandbaggers in the Merc garage. Bottas will beat Lewis in some races this year, but not Oz.  I don't think the RBs are going to be quick enough, and I'm hoping Massa can give them a fight as it sounds like the new cars are right up his alley. 

Do we know if Lewis has got the championship winning engineers again this year? I'm sure the other guys are just as fantastic at their jobs, but having the "better" half of the team would be a big psychological boost to any driver.

Bottas is on a one year deal so I guess Lewis will be given the best guys to ensure success. It would be great if Alonso was partnered with Hamilton at Merc for 2018.

Yup. They'll be looking to hire Alonso or Vettel next year, one assumes. Then Bottas is the reserve in case either they can't, or Hamilton wants to move. Bottas will have to perform fantastically well this year to get a good drive in 2018. Maybe Ferrari if Merc don't keep him. At the least he'd be a great #2

Garthy

Hamilton
Bottas
Vettel

If Bottas keeps finishing on the podium he'll earn his seat next year.