The F1 thread

Garthy

Fretwired said:

Honda about to throw in the towel?

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/honda-admits-to-talks-over-other-f1-engine-supply-deals-886204/

How does supplying customer teams equate to throwing in the towel?

Sporky

So I've seen the adverts but not the parade. Did they actually have the underwater bits and the upside down bits and the racing-in-space that were in the advert, or is it just more going 'round and 'round?

thumpingrug

Sporky said:

So I've seen the adverts but not the parade. Did they actually have the underwater bits and the upside down bits and the racing-in-space that were in the advert, or is it just more going 'round and 'round?

Still a fair bit of round and round.  The stunts and lasers come next year when Liberty has chance to change the rules a bit more.

Fretwired

Garthy said:

Fretwired said:

Honda about to throw in the towel?

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/honda-admits-to-talks-over-other-f1-engine-supply-deals-886204/

How does supplying customer teams equate to throwing in the towel?

Because the paddock burst out laughing .. nobody wants their engines. Every manufacturer wants to supply at least two teams as it helps with development and costs.

Garthy

Fretwired said:

Garthy said:

Fretwired said:

Honda about to throw in the towel?

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/honda-admits-to-talks-over-other-f1-engine-supply-deals-886204/

How does supplying customer teams equate to throwing in the towel?

Because the paddock burst out laughing .. nobody wants their engines. Every manufacturer wants to supply at least two teams as it helps with development and costs.

RBR approached Honda to supply RedBull and Torro Rosso for 2016, as did Manor & Sauber were in talks with Honda for this season, Mclaren scuppered all deals. Honda have a 10 year deal with Mclaren so again I don't see how the story you have linked to means Honda will walk.

Fretwired

Garthy said:

Fretwired said:

Garthy said:

Fretwired said:

Honda about to throw in the towel?

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/honda-admits-to-talks-over-other-f1-engine-supply-deals-886204/

How does supplying customer teams equate to throwing in the towel?

Because the paddock burst out laughing .. nobody wants their engines. Every manufacturer wants to supply at least two teams as it helps with development and costs.

RBR approached Honda to supply RedBull and Torro Rosso for 2016, as did Manor & Sauber were in talks with Honda for this season, Mclaren scuppered all deals. Honda have a 10 year deal with Mclaren so again I don't see how the story you have linked to means Honda will walk.

Honda are 30KPH down on the likes of Mercedes in a straight line. McLaren are openly criticising Honda and are speaking to Mercedes, although there's a rumour Ferrari have approached them. There is already engine capacity as Torro Rosso dropped Ferrari and Manor went bust, so Mercedes lost an engine deal. I really can't see McLaren's owners putting up with this shambles nor Honda's board. Honda paying millions in fees to McLaren and yet their brand is a laughing stock.

James Allen's analysis .. https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2017/03/mclaren-honda-f1-crisis-what-would-you-do-next-in-mclarens-shoes/

Fretwired

Mercedes admit they talked to Alonso but his McLaren contract was a stumbling point - Toto rates Alonso so could he be driving for Mercedes in 2018?

Honda to supply Sauber - McLaren to drop Honda?

Garthy

Fretwired said:

Mercedes admit they talked to Alonso but his McLaren contract was a stumbling point - Toto rates Alonso so could he be driving for Mercedes in 2018?

Honda to supply Sauber - McLaren to drop Honda?

It's likely Honda will supply Sauber next year.

Regarding a Mclaren-Honda divorce, well that's going to be very messy. The rumour about a performance clause was started by Alonso, all other parties have denied it. What is cast iron is that Honda pay Mclaren $60m annually, provide free engines which means Mclaren don't have to pay anyone else $30m for lumps and they pay the drivers salaries- $40m. Even if Alonso walks, Button next year will cost $12m so best case scenario Mclaren would be $102m worse off next year.

The other hurdle is that the other three engine suppliers do not have to supply Mclaren if they don't want to, the engine supplier that does is the one with the fewest teams, in this instance it would be Honda, except the lumps will cost $30m.

All manufacturers had hoped to recoup R&D costs via leasing their engines to customers, less the cost of supplying their own factory teams, Mclaren have prevented Honda from doing this for two seasons and if they force Honda out of the sport they will not be able to recover this cost at all for the remaining three seasons. Honda would have a legitimate claim to take Mclaren to court to recoup these monies, if Mclaren lose they would be bankrupt.

Fretwired

@Garthy .. good post. Add to McClaren's woes the fact that their uncompetitiveness means they can't attract high profile sponsors.

I thought McLaren were off the hook for Button in 2018 - isn't there a break clause?

Garthy

Fretwired said:

@Garthy .. good post. Add to McClaren's woes the fact that their uncompetitiveness means they can't attract high profile sponsors.

I thought McLaren were off the hook for Button in 2018 - isn't there a break clause?

The break clause was for 2015-2016 on Mclaren's end, this time he has a two year deal with an ambassador role for 2017 and a drive for 2018 to replace Alonso.

Fretwired

Garthy said:

Fretwired said:

@Garthy .. good post. Add to McClaren's woes the fact that their uncompetitiveness means they can't attract high profile sponsors.

I thought McLaren were off the hook for Button in 2018 - isn't there a break clause?

The break clause was for 2015-2016 on Mclaren's end, this time he has a two year deal with an ambassador role for 2017 and a drive for 2018 to replace Alonso.

Would McLaren want to swap Alonso for Button? If Honda and McLaren had a fast car then Alonso would stay. If the car remains a dog he'll probably walk, but then I doubt Button would return to drive at the back of the grid.

TimmyO

Surely they'll have made some progress by NEXT year? For the love of fuck I hope so

Fretwired

TimmyO said:

Surely they'll have made some progress by NEXT year? For the love of fuck I hope so

Yes, but so will everyone else ... :-)

Fretwired

Liberty Global (they own Liberty Media which now owns F1) have bid to takeover ITV. I wonder if F1 could return to ITV?

TimmyO

Fretwired said:

Liberty Global (they own Liberty Media which now owns F1) have bid to takeover ITV. I wonder if F1 could return to ITV?

Fine by me as long as they take the Sky commentary team with them 

stickyfiddle

TimmyO said:

Fretwired said:

Liberty Global (they own Liberty Media which now owns F1) have bid to takeover ITV. I wonder if F1 could return to ITV?

Fine by me as long as they take the Sky commentary team with them 

Yeah, that would work for me. And no ads during races (please!), which would presumably no issue as the point would be growing the audience more than maximising revenue for CVC...

TimmyO

Although I see that Sky are now doing F1 in 4k - which does tempt m to upgrade my Sky package... 

Fretwired

Could this be why McLaren is keeping its options open - new engines for 2021. Are Honda really going to throw serious cash at an engine that will be obsolete? Good news - VW are interested.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128744

Fretwired

Missed this .. I wonder if there could be an F1 angle given the change in engine regs ?

http://www.evo.co.uk/mclaren/f1/18789/mclaren-and-bmw-to-collaborate-on-new-engines-once-again

boogieman

stickyfiddle said:

TimmyO said:

Fretwired said:

Liberty Global (they own Liberty Media which now owns F1) have bid to takeover ITV. I wonder if F1 could return to ITV?

Fine by me as long as they take the Sky commentary team with them 

Yeah, that would work for me. And no ads during races (please!), which would presumably no issue as the point would be growing the audience more than maximising revenue for CVC...

Much as I don't want to have to pay to watch, I hated ITV's F1 coverage. Their "You won't miss a thing" strapline should've been pursued through the courts for misleading advertising. They always seemed to go for an ad break just at the moment someone had done a crucial overtake/crashed/broken down.