The F1 thread

thumpingrug

I cannot believe that Vettel beat Hamilton.  

darcym

Lower formula's Vettels behaviour behind a safety car would have been disqualified, deviation from a the safety car format in the lower formula's is taken very seriously, "warnings" such as the accidental wheel banging are also taken very seriously, the fact that this happened under the safety car when you are supposed to be in strict formation, prepared to stop and aware of the the car in front of you, it would have been a disqualification, and possible license endorsement, I don't think the second touch in the side of the car was intentional, I believe it was more he lost control of his car while waving his hands at Lewis, this however is the problem
a.) he was messing around under safety car conditions
b.) he put himself/others at risk during the safety car situion
c.) he lost control of his car !!! - AND during the safety car conditions
d.) he feels in the middle of a race is an appropriate time to interact with other drivers from the cock pit

It's not the first time he believes he can rule the track during the race, I'd honestly either disqualify him from the race for his total disregard of the safety car rules (losing control of your car under the safety car )or I'd ban him for one race for endangering other track users during a safety car situation, this wasn't a minor issue, the implications could have been very serious and he has form at this, an endorsement or a fine doesn't hurt at this time, a one race ban or disqualification would be the only way to actually provide a genuine punishment for this behaviour. These are professional race drivers and both world champions, and the lower formula drivers show more respect to the safety car than these guys, and its very disappointing.

Fretwired

thumpingrug said:

Im wondering if someone might get a disqualification.

Ferrari don't get disqualified. It's in the rules .... :-)

I bet Vettel was concentrating on his steering wheel to get the car ready for the restart and didn't notice Lewis .. the cars don't have brake lights so you need to keep a reasonable distance behind the safety car and pay attention. Woolf was angry .. not seen him be so rude to a Sky interviewer before. He and Vettel need anger management classes ...

Nitefly

Absolutely scandalous that Vettel can behave like that and profit from it.

I don't know if I even want to watch this shit any more.

stickyfiddle

Brilliant race. Completely agree Vettel should've had more punishment, but honestly I don't care as long as we get more races like today's. 

Great stuff, and kudos to Ricciardo, Bottas and (especially) Stroll for being the guys there at the end when the cards landed.

Boromedic

The marshalls were a bit poor and need some educating. Charlie and race control should have used the VSC to clear the track initially, then they wouldn't have had to red flag it which was unavoidable in the end after too many restart bumps and carbon everywhere. It was nearly as chaotic as the GP2 race last year.

Vettel made a rookie error and then to cover his embarassment tried to blame Lewis, it was obvious he just coasted into the corner and didn't then gas on unlike the first restart, there was no brake input at all. Lewis can moan but Seb is such a petulant over privileged child at times.

Was a reasonable race though.

riscado

To be honest, I'm not sure I like what Hamilton did to Vettel in the first place, that seems quite premeditated. That's quite a break in pace coming out of a tight turn. I don't believe for a second he didn't expect that outcome.

Fretwired

This cracked me up ... the old German Luftwaffe ace isn't happy .. perhaps the old Hitler film clip could be reused yet again ...  :-)

Fretwired

riscado said:

To be honest, I'm not sure I like what Hamilton did to Vettel in the first place, that seems quite premeditated.

Lots of comments saying it was Hamilton's fault but I assume the stewards had access to telemetry from Hamilton's car.

not_the_dj

Boromedic said:

Charlie and race control should have used the VSC to clear the track initially,

Would that have created big enough gaps between the cars for the marshalls to go onto the track and clear the debris? I would have thought having them bunched up behind the safety car was the safer option. 

Fretwired

not_the_dj said:

Boromedic said:

Charlie and race control should have used the VSC to clear the track initially,

Would that have created big enough gaps between the cars for the marshalls to go onto the track and clear the debris? I would have thought having them bunched up behind the safety car was the safer option. 

Alonso was right - red flag.

Boromedic

riscado said:

To be honest, I'm not sure I like what Hamilton did to Vettel in the first place, that seems quite premeditated. That's quite a break in pace coming out of a tight turn. I don't believe for a second he didn't expect that outcome.

Did you even watch the footage? You are talking crazy mate, Hamiltons pace never altered as he went into the corner and then exited, I don't think he even braked, just taking your foot off the gas is like braking in these cars. Like Fret says, the telemetry has clearly shown Hamilton didn't brake test him otherwise he would have had a penalty or been disqualified, Vettel made a rookie error and should have been shown the black flag for his behaviour afterwards as darcym explained. Why would Ham risk a rear end collision and potentially a puncture? The onus on the car behind is to pay attention same as on the normal roads, he assumed Lewis would sprint off and then f**cked up when he didn't.

Boromedic

Fretwired said:

not_the_dj said:

Boromedic said:

Charlie and race control should have used the VSC to clear the track initially,

Would that have created big enough gaps between the cars for the marshalls to go onto the track and clear the debris? I would have thought having them bunched up behind the safety car was the safer option. 

Alonso was right - red flag.

At the time of the first safety car when Hamilton questioned it, a VSC would have sufficed with double waved yellows around the debris areas. After the first restart, more debris was created in the melee, then Alonso was right to suggest red flag. If they hadn't have used the safety car in the first instance then they wouldn't have had to have a second safety car period and subsequent red flag, the chain of events leading up to it were all caused by the first safety car. Which some would argue was used cynically to promote more entertainment.......

Fretwired

I favour a restart after a red flag - more entertaining. The cars have one lap to the grid to warm their tyres and line up in the order they were in just prior to the red flag. And boom .. another start. More entertaining.

sinbaadi

Undoubtedly the first collision is Vettel's fault.

What Vettel did afterwards is just ridiculous.  10s stop and go does not come close.  Even if Hamilton had blatantly brake checked him, you can't bash into someone on purpose!

Boromedic

Hence the cynics arguing the SC's and red flag were used for that reason, I'm not fussed either way being the F1 anorak I am I don't care if it's processional or chaos I just love the spectacle! It does add some of that elusive enterainment though when they restart.

Vettel should be given a one race suspended ban for the rest of the season at the very least, he needs to sort himself out. I've no doubt he scared himself which added to the reaction, but I'm pretty sure that Hamilton never braked and just got off the gas and Vettel was predicting a scarper and did himself over.

riscado

Boromedic said:

riscado said:

To be honest, I'm not sure I like what Hamilton did to Vettel in the first place, that seems quite premeditated. That's quite a break in pace coming out of a tight turn. I don't believe for a second he didn't expect that outcome.

Did you even watch the footage? You are talking crazy mate, Hamiltons pace never altered as he went into the corner and then exited, I don't think he even braked, just taking your foot off the gas is like braking in these cars. Like Fret says, the telemetry has clearly shown Hamilton didn't brake test him otherwise he would have had a penalty or been disqualified, Vettel made a rookie error and should have been shown the black flag for his behaviour afterwards as darcym explained. Why would Ham risk a rear end collision and potentially a puncture? The onus on the car behind is to pay attention same as on the normal roads, he assumed Lewis would sprint off and then f**cked up when he didn't.

I watched the race... not going to get into an argument with you, that's not why I come to the forum. You have your opinion and I have mine.

Taking his foot of the gas there is definitely enough to make it premeditated, especially coming from a driver with as much experience as Hamilton has.

Live with it.

Boromedic

So you say you're not going to get into an argument then say "Live with it", don't be a dick fella.............  they all play that stop start, gas on/off thing as they gear up towards the safety car peeling away.

The stewards have access to all the footage and telemetry, they saw fit to penalise one driver not both, what driver would seriously want to crash in that instance? Least of all one who is behind in the championship, it's not like Senna vs Prost at Suzuka now is it? 

Yes you have your opinion and this time you're wrong.

Fretwired

riscado said:

I watched the race... not going to get into an argument with you, that's not why I come to the forum. You have your opinion and I have mine. Definitely premeditated as far as I'm concerned, live with it.

I disagree:

1. The stewards would have access to Hamilton's telemetry
2. Had Hamilton break-tested Vettel the telemetry  would have proved it
   
3. Had Hamilton taken his foot off the accelerator the car would have stopped
4. From what I saw Hamilton kept a consistent speed
5. The stewards obviously agreed as he wasn't penalised
   

What I saw was Vettel right up Hamilton's exhaust pipe expecting him to make a dash - he probably also had one eye on Massa, who nearly mugged him at the end of the previous safety car stint, and was fiddling with his steering wheel to change into the correct mode to chase down Hamilton .. in short he was distracted and hit Hamilton. What he did next deserved a ban.

I'm not sure whether we saw the same incident.

Boromedic

Fretwired said:

riscado said:

I watched the race... not going to get into an argument with you, that's not why I come to the forum. You have your opinion and I have mine. Definitely premeditated as far as I'm concerned, live with it.

I disagree:

1. The stewards would have access to Hamilton's telemetry
2. Had Hamilton break-tested Vettel the telemetry  would have proved it
   
3. Had Hamilton taken his foot off the accelerator the car would have stopped
4. From what I saw Hamilton came kept a consistent speed
5. The stewards obviously agreed as he wasn't penalised
   

What I saw was Vettel right up Hamilton's exhaust pipe expecting him to make a dash - he probably also had one eye on Massa, who nearly mugged him at the end of the previous safety car stint, and was fiddling with his steering wheel to change into the correct mode to chase down Hamilton .. in short he was distracted and hit Hamilton. What he did next deserved a ban.

I'm not sure whether we saw the same incident.

Fret is also correct here, I saw consistent speed or maybe a small lift as I said previously above.