The Fretboard Kemper Thread

Drew_TNBD

So I figured we've got a thunderously giant Axe FX II thread, might as well attempt to do one for the Kemper. As some of you know, I've had a Kemper for a while now. Actually purchased from HollowAxis on September 12th. So it'll be a month on Sunday.

I'm really enjoying it. It's very immediate to record with. Rather than throwing blocks into place, tweaking resonance parameters, and getting down into the nitty gritty of transformers, tubes, and bias values... you just load a profile. If it sounds shit, you move on. If it's close, but needs more gain, turn the gain knob... if it's not bright enough, bring up the treble and presence. Works splendidly. The EQ is quite sensitive, you can definitely hear the effect of even a 0.5 difference. Ultimately you don't spend as much time tweaking as with some other units, and you instinctively know that if a profile doesn't sound promising right off the bat, it's pointless trying to carve it into something it is not. This aspect of the unit really appeals to me, because it encourages you to throw things away and not fall into the trap of constantly second guessing yourself and going "what if".

I've profiled a Laney VH100R and Diezel D-Moll so far. I've only profiled with the latest beta, but reportedly it is more accurate in the low-end. Some users feel the mids have changed, but I don't have a problem with what I'm hearing. Those old reports of aliasing in the high-end are gone, the bug was fixed, and to me it's all sounding very "real". Certainly as real as the Axe FX gives you; slightly more so in a lot of cases, because of the preamp+poweramp+speaker interaction that you get from a profile.

I've done preamp only profiles of my D-Moll as well, which means I can put the Kemper into the D-Moll's effects loop and use it's poweramp. In the practice room when a/b'ing between the preamp of the D-Moll and the profiles, none of us could tell the difference every single time; was too close to call, and became a game of chance.

Disabling the cabinet section is not - and in my opinion will never be - 100% transparent. You still retain some of the poweramp+cab+microphone characteristics. So if you are thinking (or hoping) that you'll be able to download a bunch of free profiles, turn off the cabs, and go out and do gigs with a poweramp and a set of freebie profiles... probably isn't going to happen. You're much better off rolling your own in this situation.

However *changing* cabinets does seem to work well - with the proviso that I've only tried Kemper-profiled cabs... not impulse responses - and my unit had Tills Schleicher's cabs already on it, and there are some of those that I really like. You can pull amps and cabs from other profiles, save them as mini presets, and go fully modular with it. It's quite dependent on the profiles, but generally speaking works well. I don't know for certain, but I suspect if someone profiled their setup too loudly, and you changed the cab, you'd lose a lot of bottom end and pure grunt to it, because a lot of that would come from the original cab. Just guessing here.

I'm really impressed with it for recording bass as well. I've never gotten this good bass guitar tones from a digital solution before. Amplitube sucks, as do all the other VST modellers, and even the Axe FX I really struggled with. There are some great Microtubes B7K profiles out there which I am really digging, and a bunch of real world Ampeg SVT stuff too.

I do not rate most of the freebies you get from the commercial guys - Soundside, The Amp Factory, and Petes Profiles. Their microphone techniques are not to my taste, and the way they dial the amps in originally seem to be quite treble heavy. In my honest opinion, there are much better freebie profiles on the Rig Exchange. So you can either roll your own, go and download every Dual Recto profile and sift through them (I did this two nights ago!) and delete the crap ones, or a combination of both.

I don't think there is as much leverage in the profiles as people say. For instance, you cannot convincingly turn a high-gain profile into a clean amp. I mean, you can... but I'm noticing that time and time again a dedicated profile of an amp set clean tends to sound better. Likewise, a dedicated profile of an amp set on the edge, or crunchy breakup, or balls to the walls metal tones... they sound better than trying to make a profile fit that mould. But again... you just move on and find a profile that does work for you.

People have painted the whole rig thing as being a limitation - like you're working with someone elses sound. I like that limitation, it's quite freeing. Analogous to going into the studio with a producer or an engineer who know their craft... you get to just be a musician. Again, I think that's worth repeating... you get to just be a musician. You don't have to put your engineer hat on, you don't have to put your sonic-designer-producer-mixer hat on. Just be a guitarist.

You don't have to do a whole lot of left brain right brain contextual switching, which to me is one of the chief causes of procrastination. This is really the biggest benefit over other units imho.

So would I use it live? Hmmmmm... good question. I think through a poweramp and a 4x12, with direct profiles, I probably would. I cannot see myself ever being happy with FRFR for live performance. So much of what makes a performance a "performance" is the interaction of your guitar with a huge resonating box behind you, which you can turn around and face at different angles and get different pitches of feedback and all that good stuff.

The switching of rigs in performance mode - on my unit at least - is a little slow... but in browser mode, it's really quick, almost instant. I'm still doing some investigation on this end, because people have told me that performance mode should be very quick with the latest public beta. I can't quite go along with that just yet.

Anyway, some stuff below. I'll add to this thread as time permits. Curious about tips and tricks from other users as well, so feel free to chime in!

An assortment of clips:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/j0zq5is6oua7eqf/AACMOgttYAxqZCfGoxmr0g49a?dl=0

Bass clips:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/jmbpte748yair82/AACcl0OD-tWXrv6XuN2ZAemja?dl=0

For owners, an assortment of profiles:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/aoednpffj6k3bwa/AAACzresH_EOUX45ul6C9EEUa?dl=0

guitarfishbay

Cool write up, plus I think this will prove to be a really good resource just like the Axe FX thread.  It has already answered some of my questions regarding how you find tweaking the profiles far beyond the gain level captured.

So, if you used it live, what footswitch would you use?  The Berhinger?

Fiftyshadesofjay

Good post! I can also add that I've actually had good success running it into a valve power amp just by disabling the cab section an existing profiles.

Now by doing this it's true you don't exactly get a 100% faithful preamp section of the profiled amp. However, it is possible to get great sounds in their own right. You do have to test a few though as some profiles sound great this way and some don't. I think I remeber CK saying that lowering the definition parameter can help with this also.

Moe_Zambeek

I just checked the prices for some of the well known profile packs - was shocked to see the TAF ones are 80 quid.

guitarfishbay

Moe_Zambeek said:

I just checked the prices for some of the well known profile packs - was shocked to see the TAF ones are 80 quid.

It is interesting looking at Kemper profile prices.

If you actually consider how long it takes to mic up a good tone on an amp, it could be anything from a couple of minutes to 30 minutes+, depending on how many mic combinations, amp EQ combinations, mic pre/impedance combinations etc you want to try for a specific sound - even how many guitars you want to try and get it with.  Some producers have several of the same microphone - 5x SM57s isn't uncommon for the guys who put them on snare + toms when recording drums.  If they actually wanted to shoot out each in the same spot it would take a while.

I'm not suggesting that is how long it has taken to create each profile, but the answer to how long it takes to create a profile isn't necessarily 'very little time'.  Then you've got the price of the equipment itself, which usually would include the Kemper, The Amp (combo, or head+cab) the guitar(s) used for profiling and refining, the mic(s), the mic pre(s), a lot of people are monitoring through nice monitor speakers or headphones, possibly a computer with DAW.  Then you've got the amount of time it takes to get good at micing - and people who do professional studio work have a value for their time too.

Then I'd imagine some kind of quality control happens, where they will take a load of profiles but only sell the good ones, in theory.

It is a lot of work when you think about it.  Or at least it has the potential to be a lot of work.  Some of the TAF packs are 200+ profiles, I'm guessing it took them a while to create them.

Drew_TNBD

They do seem expensive at first glance, but take the Studio Devils bundle at 89.99. Comes with 203 profiles. That's only £2.20 per profile roundabouts. The main problem I have with them is the sound, not the price. I'm not 100% sure if they're for me or not. I might grab a few individual packs, they're more economically viable.

Speaking of which, one thing annoys me about the Kemper profilers - they always give their profiles stupid names. Instead of 'Blackstar' they go 'Darkstar' ... I understand they're squicky about trademark infringement, but it's really bothersome to me.

guitarfishbay

Drew_fx said:

Speaking of which, one thing annoys me about the Kemper profilers - they always give their profiles stupid names. Instead of 'Blackstar' they go 'Darkstar' ... I understand they're squicky about trademark infringement, but it's really bothersome to me.

I agree, but most other modelling companies do the same thing.  I do find myself referencing the Axe FX Wiki page sometimes when I can't work out what something is supposed to be.

The big packs are probably decent money spinners for people like TAF - for the same price as a drive pedal you get hundreds of amp profiles done by a professional.  But yeah as you've noted, and as I've read on multiple forums, it isn't really value for money if you don't like what you're getting.  Kemper could've made a lot of money if they'd set up a monetised iTunes type store for profiles, but then that might've rigged market prices in a bad way, and discourage free profile sharing.

Have you tried the Lasse Lammert pack yet?

Drew_TNBD

Yeah I've tried Lasse's. They're okay, but some of them are a bit too dark for my tastes. Again... easily fixed with a presence and treble increase, then re-save.

PVO_Dave

I bought the Marshall TAF pack when it was half price, I'm very glad I didn't pay the full price, some of the profiles I'm sure might fit in a mix, but I didn't like any of them for live use / standalone. Some might be OK if tweaked, but nearly all of them have FX applied (even if it's just copious amounts of reverb), like Drew has said above, the beauty of the Kemper is the fact it's pretty much plug and play, I didn't find that with the TAF profiles.

The Top Jimi profiles on the other hand are perfect for me, my two main live patches (well they were, before I quit my last band) were both from him, very raw profiles.

monquixote

Drew_fx said:

I'm really enjoying it. It's very immediate to record with. Rather than throwing blocks into place, tweaking resonance parameters, and getting down into the nitty gritty of transformers, tubes, and bias values... you just load a profile. If it sounds shit, you move on. If it's close, but needs more gain, turn the gain knob... if it's not bright enough, bring up the treble and presence. Works splendidly. The EQ is quite sensitive, you can definitely hear the effect of even a 0.5 difference. Ultimately you don't spend as much time tweaking as with some other units, and you instinctively know that if a profile doesn't sound promising right off the bat, it's pointless trying to carve it into something it is not. This aspect of the unit really appeals to me, because it encourages you to throw things away and not fall into the trap of constantly second guessing yourself and going "what if".

People have painted the whole rig thing as being a limitation - like you're working with someone elses sound. I like that limitation, it's quite freeing. Analogous to going into the studio with a producer or an engineer who know their craft... you get to just be a musician. Again, I think that's worth repeating... you get to just be a musician. You don't have to put your engineer hat on, you don't have to put your sonic-designer-producer-mixer hat on. Just be a guitarist.

Really good write up, you've made me want one. 

My issue with most multi fx etc is that I spend too much time mired in switching things backwards and forwards trying endless tiny tweaks and getting annoyed when what works live doesn't work recorded and vice versa.

It's the reason my rig is so simple because if it isn't I spend more time being a tweaker than a musician. All of the best things I've owned have been essentially fine when set with everything at 12 and required only a tiny tweak to be how I want them.

Drew_TNBD

Okay, I semi take it back about The Amp Factory. I got a bunch of profiles today after posting this, because I felt it wasn't fair to judge them on freebies and audio clips.

By and large the quality is high. They sound very amp-in-the-room like, so I can understand why all the Kemper owners rave about them. Haven't gone through the bulk of what I bought, but so far I really like:

Pack 9 - Bonegner XYC – 16 Profiles £4.99
Pack 2 - Bakedman BrownEyes – 9 Profiles - £4.99
Pack 5 - MyStar Roadstar – 11 Profiles £4.99
Pack 2 - EVH Five one – 9 Profiles £4.99

I love Diezels. But surprisingly wasn't so keen on his Diezel ones. Bit too dark and not as OOMPFT as they should be imho.

Drew_TNBD

I just wrote a bass riff using the Kemper. Check it out:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/v3v8ulbwhicg8m8/InterestingBassRiff.mp3?dl=0

I grabbed some Ampeg profiles from Sinmix here:
http://www.brickwall.pl/store/index.php?id_product=7&controller=product

This uses with SinMix SVT13#HM2 profile with the gain backed off a fair amount to make it more crunchy rather than outright overdriven.

Drew_TNBD

Just got back from practice. Used the Kemper with my D-Moll for slightly crunchy tones, hit the FX-loop switch on the amp to use the Kemper as the preamp. Worked really well.

firepaulmusic

Just done two gigs at the weekend with the Kemper direct to PA. Profiled my own setup (Carr Slant 6V with Suhr Riot for OD). Used this and another clean profile of my amp + FX from the Kemper. Controlled with Line 6 XT Live. The XT did patch changes, delay on/off and volume but can't get it to turn fx on and off as the CC message numbers don't match the Kemper.

A mate who knows my sound really well said it was the best sound he'd heard me have. It 'felt' good as long as I had plenty coming back through the monitor at me. Responded well to the guitar volume as usual. Haven't tried the monitor output without speaker sim to an amp yet but I think that kind of defeats the whole objective anyway.

Overall the best direct solution yet, and I've tried most of them.

ragingben

Awesome thread, good to have a resource here with familiar faces. I'm becoming a new kemper owner next month so I'll be sure to chip in when I have something of value to add.

Barney

firepaulmusic said:

Just done two gigs at the weekend with the Kemper direct to PA. Profiled my own setup (Carr Slant 6V with Suhr Riot for OD). Used this and another clean profile of my amp + FX from the Kemper. Controlled with Line 6 XT Live. The XT did patch changes, delay on/off and volume but can't get it to turn fx on and off as the CC message numbers don't match the Kemper.

A mate who knows my sound really well said it was the best sound he'd heard me have. It 'felt' good as long as I had plenty coming back through the monitor at me. Responded well to the guitar volume as usual. Haven't tried the monitor output without speaker sim to an amp yet but I think that kind of defeats the whole objective anyway.

Overall the best direct solution yet, and I've tried most of them.

cool....so how different is it to the feel of a real amp for live playing ...still the same feel as a valve amp..? and when you used valve amps did you mic them or just used of backline..?

Fiftyshadesofjay

Here's a recording of one of my bands, it's heavy stuff so won't be for everyone, but it gives you an idea what great results you can get.

Guitars and bass are 100% Kemper recorded in my home studio (which is a Yamaha desk and an old Macbook).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/no76d7y9y1s7b31/The Death Of Us-Murder Suicide.mp3?dl=0

Drew_TNBD

Fiftyshadesofjay said:

Here's a recording of one of my bands, it's heavy stuff so won't be for everyone, but it gives you an idea what great results you can get.

Guitars and bass are 100% Kemper recorded in my home studio (which is a Yamaha desk and an old Macbook).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/no76d7y9y1s7b31/The Death Of Us-Murder Suicide.mp3?dl=0

Really nice tones! I don't mind the music at all actually. The mix is a little overly compressed for my tastes, but you can still hear the Kemper, and it's pretty damn great sounding.

Fiftyshadesofjay

Cheers man! The bass was one of the free Amp Factory ones with the gain turned up and EQ'd in the Kemper. 

Guitars are two guitarists, one left one right, both double tracked.

Drew_TNBD

Sig X profiles, coz fuck it... why not:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/icpdwwa6l3i3kcd/AACDdTmth2hOng66-Sw2aONYa?dl=0

firepaulmusic

Barney said:

firepaulmusic said:

Just done two gigs at the weekend with the Kemper direct to PA. Profiled my own setup (Carr Slant 6V with Suhr Riot for OD). Used this and another clean profile of my amp + FX from the Kemper. Controlled with Line 6 XT Live. The XT did patch changes, delay on/off and volume but can't get it to turn fx on and off as the CC message numbers don't match the Kemper.

A mate who knows my sound really well said it was the best sound he'd heard me have. It 'felt' good as long as I had plenty coming back through the monitor at me. Responded well to the guitar volume as usual. Haven't tried the monitor output without speaker sim to an amp yet but I think that kind of defeats the whole objective anyway.

Overall the best direct solution yet, and I've tried most of them.

cool....so how different is it to the feel of a real amp for live playing ...still the same feel as a valve amp..? and when you used valve amps did you mic them or just used of backline..?

 

I always mic the amp and also have it coming back through monitors to overcome the drums and bass etc. To be honest what I'm usually hearing with the band is mostly the guitar through the monitors so hearing it from the kemper was nothing strange to me.

I think the feel element is something that guitarists are getting hung up about too much. When the band kicks in how much of that amp feel can you or the audience actually get? It's what comes out of the PA that counts (I'll probably get put up against a wall and shot by the loud amp guys out there!)