Boss pedals - Japan versus the world

xSkarloey

I thought the Turbo mode was getting into HM-2 territory.

Why not go the whole hog and come over to the Dark Side? >:)

What's more my local Snake Oil consultant assured me that the Taiwanese HM-2's contained more distilled evil.

ICBM

mike_l said:

Maybe it's just me, but surely these pedals are designed to be all the same?

So whether it's MIT or MIJ shouldn't matter?

I'm thinking (and call me cynical if you want) that different people are hearing differences because they want to.

There are genuine component difference in some of them. The DS-1 and DS-2 both have different clipping diodes and the DS-1 (I think, I'd have to check) a couple of other small differences. These are real. Many of the other ones, it will only be down to component tolerance variation and possibly things like cap types, which are sometimes different - have a look at the pics of the DS-2s in the thread linked above. Most of them, there's probably no real difference.

randomhandclaps

Looking at it from a purely geographical and dietary perspective it is possible (although entirely speculative) that any tonal differences are due to the higher salt content of the tears of Japanese production-line children compared with their Taiwanese counterparts.

mike_l

ICBM said:

mike_l said:

Maybe it's just me, but surely these pedals are designed to be all the same?

So whether it's MIT or MIJ shouldn't matter?

I'm thinking (and call me cynical if you want) that different people are hearing differences because they want to.

There are genuine component difference in some of them. The DS-1 and DS-2 both have different clipping diodes and the DS-1 (I think, I'd have to check) a couple of other small differences. These are real. Many of the other ones, it will only be down to component tolerance variation and possibly things like cap types, which are sometimes different - have a look at the pics of the DS-2s in the thread linked above. Most of them, there's probably no real difference.

Ok, I understand there's variables within components, but I don't understand that 2 pedals with the same components, just made in different places, can sound different (other than the tolerances within the internals)

ThePrettyDamned

mike_l;410408" said:

ICBM said:





mike_l said:



Maybe it's just me, but surely these pedals are designed to be all the same?

So whether it's MIT or MIJ shouldn't matter?

I'm thinking (and call me cynical if you want) that different people are hearing differences because they want to.There are genuine component difference in some of them. The DS-1 and DS-2 both have different clipping diodes and the DS-1 (I think, I'd have to check) a couple of other small differences. These are real. Many of the other ones, it will only be down to component tolerance variation and possibly things like cap types, which are sometimes different - have a look at the pics of the DS-2s in the thread linked above. Most of them, there's probably no real difference.Ok, I understand there's variables within components, but I don't understand that 2 pedals with the same components, just made in different places, can sound different (other than the tolerances within the internals)

The idea is the Japan ones had different caps, diodes, chips etc so same circuit but different components filling it.

In the case of the ds-2, there seems to be no correlation at all. So... Meh, I'm going for a cheap used one. I know they do *that* sound so I don't really mind too much, but if it turned out the sound I like is the Japan one and the Taiwan one was significantly different, I'd be a bit miffed.

d8m

I once tried a friends MIJ DS-2 alongside my MIT and to my ears they sounded no different.

TheCount

randomhandclaps said:

TheCount said:

Usual internet mythology, the old ones are always better.

 

You wanna cut down on your MILF-Hub usage.

How did you know that? I'm always incognito....

ICBM

mike_l said:

Ok, I understand there's variables within components, but I don't understand that 2 pedals with the same components, just made in different places, can sound different (other than the tolerances within the internals)

That assumes they used the same components. Even if the circuit is the same, there can be differences in (particularly) caps, even of the same value. (NB, they make no difference in guitars! Different case entirely.)

But yes - assuming the circuit is the same and the components are the same, and discounting tolerances, then place of manufacture has no bearing. But that's quite a big window for possible variation, considering they're built by different subcontractors, using parts from different suppliers probably.

Still, I don't hear noticeable differences between most of them.

TheCount

If you lined up 10 pedals, all manufactured in different parts of the world but the same circuit, comps etc they would all sound slightly different due to component tolerances. What one sounds best is purely personal taste, nothing more, nothing less. 

After finding what one sounded best to your ears does not guarantee that all others from that country will sound the same or be superior to the other 9.  

Dave_Mc

ICBM said:

mike_l said:

Maybe it's just me, but surely these pedals are designed to be all the same?

So whether it's MIT or MIJ shouldn't matter?

I'm thinking (and call me cynical if you want) that different people are hearing differences because they want to.

There are genuine component difference in some of them. The DS-1 and DS-2 both have different clipping diodes and the DS-1 (I think, I'd have to check) a couple of other small differences. These are real. Many of the other ones, it will only be down to component tolerance variation and possibly things like cap types, which are sometimes different - have a look at the pics of the DS-2s in the thread linked above. Most of them, there's probably no real difference.

The early DS1s had a single op-amp, didn't they? While the newer ones have a dual op-amp?

I dunno, I've never tried the MIJ ones, but that seems to be the word on the net. )

ICBM

Dave_Mc said:

The early DS1s had a single op-amp, didn't they? While the newer ones have a dual op-amp?

Not as far as I know, but I could be wrong if they've changed it fairly recently. All the ones I've seen inside, both Japanese and Taiwanese, use a single SIL (Single In Line, unlike the more common DIL type used in the SD-1, Tube Screamer etc) IC containing one op-amp. They would have had to modify the circuit quite substantially if it now uses a dual op-amp, and I can't really see that being done.

To be honest I don't open them up that often though! They rarely break.

Heartfeltdawn

samzadgan said:

not sure about all of them...but i can tell you on the HM2...the EQ of the MIJ one is slightly better for that buzzsaw sound...but to be honest, that slightly, is not enough to warrant the difference in cost.

but its interesting that some people will say that the MIT HM2's are rubbish compared to MIJ...maybe they have dog-ears and hear stuff i cant...

Spent the afternoon with two Taiwan and one MIJ HM-2. Output going direct into Reaper, all tone controls set identically. Naff all significant difference between all three. Go with the MIT and save yourself the cash. 

Dave_Mc

ICBM said:

Dave_Mc said:

The early DS1s had a single op-amp, didn't they? While the newer ones have a dual op-amp?

Not as far as I know, but I could be wrong if they've changed it fairly recently. All the ones I've seen inside, both Japanese and Taiwanese, use a single SIL (Single In Line, unlike the more common DIL type used in the SD-1, Tube Screamer etc) IC containing one op-amp. They would have had to modify the circuit quite substantially if it now uses a dual op-amp, and I can't really see that being done.

To be honest I don't open them up that often though! They rarely break.

Thanks. I'm sure I've come across a schematic with a dual op-amp (and maybe even word on the net) but it could well be BS )

Flanging_Fred

I had 2 CE-2 chorus pedals at the same time. Both green label but one Japan, one Taiwan. They sounded exactly the same. So I kept the Japanese one because it was better

Dave_Mc

It just hit me where I'd read about the DS1:

http://buildyourownclone.com/effects-pedals/distortion/orangedist.html

"The original DS-1 used the Toshiba TA7136P chip. When this chip became obsolete, BOSS changed the circuit to accommodate dual op amps. The TA7136P was not a dual op amp."

Now, I dunno if that's accurate or not- obviously BYOC is trying to sell its kits. ) But I thought I'd read it somewhere where I was half-inclined to believe it, at least. I've seen a schematic as well (not there, as their schematic is the single op-amp one), but probably not from as reliable a source as BYOC.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying all the MIJ ones are better or anything like that (I don't think I've even tried any MIJ ones, and I recently got a new SD1 so obviously personally I'm not that worried). Just pointing out that there are some claims that the circuit of the DS1 might have changed- as ICBM said, if the circuit has changed (or even the layout or parts types) that might affect the tone.

alalalkasar

The average Taiwanese male is 25mm taller than his Japanese counterpart, this extra distance between there eyes and the circuit board they're working on leads to sloppier work and massive disruptions in the Chrystal lattice.

richardhomer

Flanging_Fred;410940" said:

I had 2 CE-2 chorus pedals at the same time. Both green label but one Japan, one Taiwan. They sounded exactly the same. So I kept the Japanese one because it was better

Are you sure it wasn't a BF-2?

darcym

try the chorus, I found a difference between the jap CE2 and standard CE2, not huge, but certainly noticeable on the slower speed, but I couldn't head a difference between the DS1.

That maybe subjective, but it may also depend on the pedal if you can hear a difference or not.

ThePrettyDamned

darcym;411821" said:

try the chorus, I found a difference between the jap CE2 and standard CE2, not huge, but certainly noticeable on the slower speed, but I couldn't head a difference between the DS1.

That maybe subjective, but it may also depend on the pedal if you can hear a difference or not.

That's true enough. I was on the lookout for a ce-2 but the hardwire chorus is actually really good, and stereo to boot, so I won't upgrade unless that breaks I think.

It's interesting, I'm inclined to think they're mostly very similar indeed and that the extra price is for collectors/cool value now. So I'll save a few pennies

ICBM

The CE-3 is essentially a stereo CE-2, made in Japan and sells for less because it's not the 'cool' model... but the circuits are very similar.