Jazz Stuff (the thread formerly known as "Just ordered some jazz guitar books...")

Jalapeno

Megii said:

Jalapeno said:

Megii said:

I believe Joe Pass said all his chord shapes had to be quick and easy to grab

And he was a wise man. 

Mental chord stretches was my only real issue with the Mickey Baker book.

My Dad gave me a copy of the Mickey Baker book when I was first learning, and I got a some of the basic shapes from it. But yes, I do agree with you @Jalapeno, and I'm not actually a huge fan of that book these days. It still seems very popular though, for some reason.

It leads you in gently (not the chords stuff - they're bastids - the soloing) and teaches your ear.  Took me a while to get it but it's all in there.

Megii

Jalapeno said:

Megii said:

Jalapeno said:

Megii said:

I believe Joe Pass said all his chord shapes had to be quick and easy to grab

And he was a wise man. 

Mental chord stretches was my only real issue with the Mickey Baker book.

My Dad gave me a copy of the Mickey Baker book when I was first learning, and I got a some of the basic shapes from it. But yes, I do agree with you @Jalapeno, and I'm not actually a huge fan of that book these days. It still seems very popular though, for some reason.

It leads you in gently (not the chords stuff - they're bastids - the soloing) and teaches your ear.  Took me a while to get it but it's all in there.

Decades since I last looked at that book tbh - I remember it as a bit old fashioned and out of date in it's approach, but maybe I'm being unfair, I'll have to dig it out again and have another look. It did prove useful to me when I was first learning jazz chords, so I should be grateful to MB for that. Maybe I'm good with chords, I don't know, but I don't remember anything in there that I couldn't play after a bit of practice. Perhaps I should have worked harder at the soloing stuff in there, but with me the single line soloing seemed to come from other sources.

Jalapeno

@Megii It has a "Trust Me I'm A Doctor" haughty tone about that I found hard - I wondered why I was doing the exercises - but there's goodness eventually. The stuff on two note chords & focussing on 3rds/7ths is really good.

Megii

Jalapeno said:

@Megii It has a "Trust Me I'm A Doctor" haughty tone about that I found hard - I wondered why I was doing the exercises - but there's goodness eventually. The stuff on two note chords & focussing on 3rds/7ths is really good.

I'll give it another look I promise.

Branshen

I've been playing four note chord voicings for a fair bit now. They sound great as long as all the tasty extensions are added.

Since I've started playing bass, the point of not having to play the root has really been hammered home. (providing there's a bass player of course)

That Joe pass nugget on chords being quick and easy to grab sounds about right.

GuyBoden

Yes, I agree, an instantly playable set of chords is an early prerequisite for getting around songs. Them big muddy sounding barr chords with 5ths need to be avoided.


Here's Reg showing some great comping ideas/insights on the obligatory Jazz song, Blue Bossa:

Jalapeno

That's not my understanding of comping, far too busy - that's definitely Chord/Melody best suited for solo guitar or a duet.

Megii

Reg is great isn't he? - I've nicked a few things of his lately - he did a latin comping one for "What's New" which I went through nicking everything I could from. The guy's a total star though, for putting out so much stuff on YouTube, totally free.

Megii

Jalapeno said:

That's not my understanding of comping, far too busy - that's definitely Chord/Melody best suited for solo guitar or a duet.

I do understand what you mean, but I think what he's doing in that video could work in a small band context.

GuyBoden

Jalapeno said:

That's not my understanding of comping, far too busy - that's definitely Chord/Melody best suited for solo guitar or a duet.

Reg will be able to play in any situation, he's a pro player, he uses his ears, his groove is solid, checkout his other videos.

hobbio

Megii said:

hobbio said:

Oh I forgot, the book belongs to my tutor but I might have to find out what it is so I can buy it myself.

Do please let us know @hobbio.

It's called Gypsy Guiitar: The Secrets Volume 1 The Gypsy Swing and it's available here. There looks to be 2 editions, this is the latest one. I've just bought it.

I've also found the Exploring Jazz book for a penny, so I've bought it. If that doesn't come through I'll get the full price one, burn the CD and then return it. I don't feel bad about this at all cos I've already paid for the book and there's no other way of getting the backing tracks again.

Megii

hobbio said:

Megii said:

hobbio said:

Oh I forgot, the book belongs to my tutor but I might have to find out what it is so I can buy it myself.

Do please let us know @hobbio.

It's called Gypsy Guiitar: The Secrets Volume 1 The Gypsy Swing and it's available here. There looks to be 2 editions, this is the latest one. I've just bought it.

I've also found the Exploring Jazz book for a penny, so I've bought it. If that doesn't come through I'll get the full price one, burn the CD and then return it. I don't feel bad about this at all cos I've already paid for the book and there's no other way of getting the backing tracks again.

Cool, nice one @Hobbio - I've tended to avoid looking at Gypsy Jazz stuff very heavily, simply because I think I should try to focus on mastering the bop side of things, which seems a tough enough task on it's own. If I'd been more focused 20 or 30 years ago... But those are obviously great books, so perhaps I'll indulge all the same. Christ, who wouldn't buy that book for a penny - can't blame you at all there!

Megii

GuyBoden said: Jalapeno said: That's not my understanding of comping, far too busy - that's definitely Chord/Melody best suited for solo guitar or a duet.
Reg will be able to play in any situation, he's a pro player, he uses his ears, his groove is solid, checkout his other videos.


The thing I love about Reg's videos is that he is absolutely a pro jazz guitarist, and he just throws it out there. He doesn't try to simplify anything, and sometimes goes quite fast - he doesn't nanny you at all. But for someone already at a fairly high level, but trying to pull themselves up to that real pro standard, I think it's invaluable help.

hobbio

@Megii If the Exploring Jazz book comes through you can have it if you want. I've already got it and just need the backing tracks again, so you'll get the book and a copy of the CD. You might find that it's aimed a little below your standard though.

Megii

hobbio said:

@Megii If the Exploring Jazz book comes through you can have it if you want. I've already got it and just need the backing tracks again, so you'll get the book and a copy of the CD. You might find that it's aimed a little below your standard though.

I find most books have at least something I can learn from - I doubt that one will be any different. So cheers, and I'm inclined to take you up on that!

hobbio

Cool, you'll be able to help me when I get stuck

If it arrives I'll PM you for your address once I've copied the CD.

Megii

hobbio said:

Cool, you'll be able to help me when I get stuck

If it arrives I'll PM you for your address once I've copied the CD.

I'll certainly try anyhow, if and when, and assuming I'm not stuck either...

jazzlemming

Just read through the thread and I noticed a couple of things. The "super locrian" scale over the dominant is very common of course, but almost nobody says "super locrian" except guitarists! The altered scale is what people usually call it. 

Also, re. enclosures, it's worth thinking about which notes land on the beat and off the beat. If you write a bunch of quaver lines over ii v is with chord tones on the beat and diatonic/chromatic passing notes off the beat, you might make some discoveries. I remember filling sheets with lines over Dm7 G7 Cmaj7 for example, and experimenting with different ideas like that. It gives you loads of time to think, which helped me a lot!

Megii

jazzlemming said:

Just read through the thread and I noticed a couple of things. The "super locrian" scale over the dominant is very common of course, but almost nobody says "super locrian" except guitarists! The altered scale is what people usually call it. 

Also, re. enclosures, it's worth thinking about which notes land on the beat and off the beat. If you write a bunch of quaver lines over ii v is with chord tones on the beat and diatonic/chromatic passing notes off the beat, you might make some discoveries. I remember filling sheets with lines over Dm7 G7 Cmaj7 for example, and experimenting with different ideas like that. It gives you loads of time to think, which helped me a lot!

Some great thoughts there, thank you very much for adding that @jazzlemming. Interesting re the ii V  lines - I do sit around noodling and trying to come with lines like that myself sometimes, appreciate your ideas on that. "Super locrian" does maybe sound a bit poncy somehow I agree, although that terminology seemed to be all the rage at one time. These days "altered scale" probably better...

viz

As well as super locrian on the dominant, the acoustic and hindu scales - (4th and 5th modes) can sound great, depending on context. Also if you're doing a 6251, the hindu sounds really good over the 6.