expanding our existing PA - or is it enough anyway

nickp

Hi - you might guess that I'm having issues with PA at the moment as we have been asked to do two weddings and i'm struggling to get to grips with other band members with fixed perceptions (and very tightly locked wallets).

We are playing to 50-100 people in two different wedding venues - both look like fairly big rooms to me - church hall sized perhaps and I'm worried that our current PA won't sound good enough - I've posted a question already about what we should look for in a larger PA.

Two and a half band members are categorically convinced that we will be fine without a bigger PA.  I think our drummer is loudish without being John Bonham.  We have a 400w vocal PA rig (peavey XR 684F 400w ) with a powered monitor and slave so at least the full 400w is available for the vocals.  We have a pair of Peavey messenger pro 15 speakers so 300w each.

Two parts to my question.

1. do you think this is sufficient

2. is there a cheapish way of upgrading it and what would you do

I think part of our band's issue is that I'm newish to all of this with no experience and therefore no "clout" in a discussion whereas the other two have the experience but I find them a little "dismissive" of weddings and "being the best that we can" and I won't do anything unless we are as professional as possible.

many thanks

Nick

PS we play rock and indie with some vocal harmonies.  2 guitars, bass, drums, vocals and 2 backing vocals.  the peavey PA mixer has 9 channels I think.

PPS - I know that our speakers are budget!

Cabicular

I would be uncomfortable with that. It will do it just not very well

It's a powered mixer so options for expansion aren't great without involving a crossover a sub and another power amp and even then you would be shoring up a basic system.

A couple of these and a mixing desk would give you better results

http://www.andertons.co.uk/active-pa-speakers/pid35632/cid627/mackie-thump-12-1000w-active-pa-loudspeaker.asp

If you got a couple of hundred for your old kit it would take the sting out of it

I would look for a second hand desk

PolarityMan

Having used lots of practice rooms I'm actually unconvinced by low end active speakers, they seem to break alot. We have the same speakers as you (peavey messengers) with a separate poweramp and have got on pretty well with them.

We also only put vocals through the PA and our drummer is stupidly loud. I dont think it would cope with anythign else through them at the volumes we play at mind you.

nickp

now got a venue size - 75ft (23m) x 40ft (12.2m) = 3000sq ft 

mike257

Are you providing "dj" music for the rest of the evening too? Often find myself being laptop dj at functions, so i won't turn up without a full-range system that has at least one sub and can comfortably provide dancefloor friendly playback volumes. Worth bearing in mind if that's part of your deal for the evening.

nickp

@mike257 - it isn't specially part of the deal although I can see us getting asked.

is it possible to add a powered sub to our system some how with ease and would that considerably improve the system's ability to cope (generally with overall volumes and presence) or is it that we also lack overall power as the system is only 2x200w

ElectroDan

I think for a church hall with 50 - 100 people, it would be adequate to just run vocals through.

It depends how far you want to go with the band as a professional entity. It sounds to me like your band mates are not that bothered, so it may be worth having a frank discussion about the direction you are all going to take first.

maltingsaudio

Ahem! Why don't you consider hiring a system for the two gigs and charging accordingly? I know someone who can help you out!

mike257

I'd agree with the posts about direction - if your current system is adequate for your usual gigs then it seems wasteful expanding unless you're aiming to step up into the function circuit. If that's the case, your whole PA needs an overhaul and any purchase like a sub should be carefully considered so as to complement whatever other upgrades you may make next. Although taking a slice of your fee to hire in a rig might be a hard sell on your bandmates, it might be a good move. When i joined my ex band they were doing weddings with a terrible rig that often left the vocals inaudible. It took me nearly a year to get them to invest in something half decent, but it was the loan for a few gigs of a mate's HK Actor DX (that i now own) convinced them why good PA is worth investing in. They listened for two minutes and said "Wow, THIS is what we need!".. All comes down to where you/they see the band's future and what everyone is prepared to invest to achieve that.

Danny1969

@mike257

The Actor DX has been a solid investment for us too. We got it in 2008 and it's always performed faultlessly and  sounds amazing, like a giant Hi Fi rather than a PA. 

@nickp

Adding a sub won't achieve anything unless your putting the kick drum and bass guitar through the PA ...... vocals and guitar tend to be upwards of 100hz so will remain in the tops only......  even if you add 8 subs !

Something with better EQ and some means of controlling the dynamics would be my choice. Get a decent desk first, then either a pair of quality active speakers or a good amp and some quality passive speakers

You know you can mic up drums and put them through a pair of small computer speakers at full pelt  if you have enough EQ and some compression to reign in the transients. 

thomasross20

Rather than start my own thread....

Our band are looking to get our own PA, including monitors etc. 

What exactly do we need to buy? Ideally we'd get it used! How expensive is the whole lot in general? What duplicates/spares do we need?

Danny1969

How longs a piece of string ? you can buy cheap PA stuff and you can spend a fortune. Some bands only put the vocal through the PA but some bands put everything through it. Some bands are happy with one aux send to run a monitor, some bands want 10 aux sends so everyone can have a stereo IEM mix preferably controlled by their phones. 

In my own experience the cheapest rig we use cost about £2400 2nd hand and the dearest rig we use in the top earning band was about 8K new .... that's speakers and desk obviously you also got mic's, stands, monitors or IEMs and all kinds of cables and stuff you need as well. 

You can also get by with a Peavey mixer head and 2 speakers for about £350 2nd hand, a lot of bands do

close2u

I've been running a couple of threads on pa you may want to browse.
We got sorted with a used pa, cracking system, (plus, just today) and two monitors. All for less than £700

thomasross20

@Danny1969, I can't see us splitting cash to go for something over £2k. Peavey mixer and 2 speakers sounds about right...!!

close2u, that also sounds around the correct price (for us!)

close2u

@thomasross20

If that's your price, a few good folk in the forum responded to my wanted ad with pa gear they were selling.

Good systems it would seem, and good blokes too, just not where we were and / or quite what we wanted.

Danny1969

thomasross20 said:

@Danny1969, I can't see us splitting cash to go for something over £2k. Peavey mixer and 2 speakers sounds about right...!!

close2u, that also sounds around the correct price (for us!)

That's what I meant by how long is a piece of string, to some bands that would be a lot of money, to other bands that would be less than a gig and a half's worth of earnings

You can gig with a 2k PRS or a £500 Mexican Strat, both will get the job done. The thing is though the difference in PA quality is actually noticeable to the audience rather than the player ...  hence the reason some bands sink a lot of money into it 

thomasross20

Thanks, guys - I'll consult with the band and see what the plan is....