Motivating band members to practice ?

Emp_Fab

Our latest covers venture is encountering a few hiccups...  namely, the lazy fuckers aren't learning the songs.  We have our first gig booked for mid-May and we need to get two songs per week completed from start to finish and gig-ready.  We've got half a dozen numbers so far but none that I would call polished enough to gig.  Every week we drag all the gear into the practice room and go over the older ones to warm up before attempting the new ones.  Every week the singer screws up somewhere, the other guitarist is turned down and is visibly unsure of what he's supposed to be playing (not helped by him smoking a spliff before we even start), the drummer can't remember what endings we decided on the previous week (and neither can anyone else).

I try to impress on them the need to spend more time at home learning the songs and that practice is for home, rehearsals are for bringing together what we've already learned.  Some do, some don't, some criticise me for trying too hard to achieve "perfection".

I'm getting a bit tired of trying to herd cats and being seen as a moaning bastard.

I suggested that I record our rehearsals and stick them in our band dropbox so we can listen to where we're going wrong and target our efforts, but that was met with zero responses from three of them, ambivalence by another and outright hostility from the keyboard player - "I don't need to record everyone to pick out notes that may be slightly out of place.  No need for it."  "Never recorded a rehearsal with any other band."

Maybe I am being a perfectionist, but I really don't think I am.  "Perfect" is impossible to achieve.  Right now I'd be overjoyed if the other guitarist could remember the chords properly in all of the songs and the singer was certain of the formats instead of missing his cue and looking around for a prompt when he forgets.  That's not seeking perfection - that's trying not to get bottled on stage.

What do you do to get lazy fuckers to take it seriously ?

monquixote

You can't

People seem to either put the effort in or not and nothing much you do ever seems to change it.

Roland

To be in a covers band you need to turn up and play. Most aspirants fails at step one. Many of the remainder fail at step two, which is where I guess you are. Life's too short to waste time. Tell them that if they don't pull their fingers out then you will look for another band ... and be prepared to do it. Ask them what they need to help them learn/remember the arrangements. Give them two weeks to show an improvement.  If nothing improves then walk away

viz

We have a wonderful bassist who types out all the parts and endings (as well as organising rehearsals and gigs.) It really helps if someone can volunteer to do that.

steamabacus

This sounds all too familiar. I'd bail out now before it drives you mad.

John_P

+1   some people are bothered about the band and letting other people down so they learn things, some people can't be bothered or are just too busy.  Either way it's unlikely to change - point out how disrespectful and unprofessional it is and if they don't change find something else.    

I wound;t ask about recording - just do it, even if it's just for your own records and then share it - if they don't make use of the recordings and learn the tunes then you know they are unlikely to ever bother.

Emp_Fab

viz said:

We have a wonderful bassist who types out all the parts and endings (as well as organising rehearsals and gigs.) It really helps if someone can volunteer to do that.

Well, that would have been me...  I started by setting up a band dropbox, putting all the songs in it, along with lyrics and chord sheets etc.  I spent ages editing one of the numbers that had a fade on the record, so it had a decent (and simple) ending.  I cut and pasted all the audio together and updated the songsheet, then texted them all to say what I'd done and it would be good if they all knew it by next practice.  Not one of them even listened to it, and the singer still turned up with his incorrect lyrics sheet.

I've just texted them all to say I'm not playing headmaster anymore - someone else can take the reins (and the shit).

p90fool

All these things are just details which are indicative that they are prepared to go out in public at a much lower standard than you are.

Unless they're teenagers who are just starting out no amount of cajoling from you is going to change that. It basically means that you're incompatible and the short term solution is that you should leave.

The longer term solution is to get fire the worst culprit, ie, the one who is most hostile to improvement, and the others may shape up especially if you have an ally in his replacement. If not, just fire them one by one.

My current covers band is an evolution of a piss-poor band I stood in for a couple of times five years ago. I'm the only one left from that lot, and now it's a pretty tight, organised, well-paid little outfit (though the rhythm guitarist is pushing his luck atm).

digitalscream

If you have one member of the band like that, it's a fixable problem because everybody else will naturally drag them along until they get their shit together. If you have two, it's a bit more difficult. If you're the only one in the band who's trying to actually achieve something, you're pissing in the wind.

DItch 'em and find a bunch of musicians who actually want to do something. Sounds like these guys will just increase your stress levels, and that's exactly the opposite of what being in a band is supposed to achieve.

Emp_Fab

I'm hoping that my withdrawal from the role of 'leader' will snap them out of their complacency.  It could be that I'm just trying to push them towards a method of learning that I think is logical but doesn't work for them. Without a 'headmaster', it might settle into an "organic" growth system (as one of them put it).

I hope so.  However, my prediction is that it will follow the well-trodden path of the previous band we had (i.e. the same band with one new member and a different genre) - endless band practices (not rehearsals) where we keep making the same mistakes week after week, until we have a set of thirty-odd uncompleted songs that are too rough to perform live and end up going round and round for months on end and finally giving up because we weren't actually gigging.  None of them seemed to make the connection that the reason we couldn't book any gigs was because the set was shot through with errors and incomplete songs that even the most optimistic would consider giggable without it turning into an embarrassing train crash on stage, and the reason the set was in that state was because none of them were practising at home.  They thought that turning up once a week and racing through the set would be enough, despite the plain evidence that it wasn't.

I'm sure that to this day, some of them are still puzzled as to why the last band didn't work out.

I can see this one going down the exact same route.  Never mind... I still enjoy the 'jam sessions' (as they will become).

p90fool

In that case, just book some gigs. You will never get them to take it seriously if you're just "practising until you're ready".
Bookings concentrate the mind, without them they're just treating weekly rehearsals as part of their social life rather than work, an excuse to get away from Eastenders and the bloody kids.

viz

Good luck. It's just that some are natural leaders and instinctively take up the reins, like you have. The others may not have the inclination.

monquixote

I don't think that will work I'm afraid (although it might reduce your stress levels).

It sounds a lot like my last band which had one person who did loads of organising, one person who pulled their weight (me) and several people who despite being very capable musicians who only ever wanted to wing it and not put any effort in. As a result though we did a few half decent gigs we were no where near as good or prolific as we should have been. 

Once the person who did the organising got sick of it and stopped (again with the idea that someone else might pick up the slack) the band just lost all momentum and ground to a halt. 

Even having one lazy person doesn't really work in my experience. We invited one of the members of the previous band to join my new (very committed and hardworking band) with the idea she might be dragged along by the others, but it just didn't work. We changed half the set to suit her and it became apparent that after two weeks that we had learnt all the new songs and she hadn't even listened to them.

Danny1969

Money is the best motivator. A good covers band earns a lot, each member earns thousands not hundreds, thousands ...... You want money ? well money cost and er .... right here is where you start paying by learning the damm songs

Emp_Fab

viz said:

Good luck. It's just that some are natural leaders and instinctively take up the reins, like you have. The others may not have the inclination.

Have a Wiz.... just because you've flattered me.  :-*  Nobody's called me a 'natural leader' before.  I like that...  Hmmm.... "Natural Leader....".  Has a ring to it dontcha think ?  ~O)

PolarityMan

Emp_Fab said:

 "Never recorded a rehearsal with any other band."

What? Was the last time they played in a band before the advent of cheap mobile recorders / mobile phones or something. I have never been in a band that hasn't recorded some practices. It's an essential tool in my opinion.

For me these days while it is partly about finding areas for improvement I also like the fact that certain parts where I feel like the timing is being pulled / not tight that I make everyone go over like 20 times in rehearsal I listen back and actually the first time through was really tight, it just felt iffy, so it can be good from a morale perspective too.

Emp_Fab

Only if the rest of them aspire to a tight performance that I know we're capable of.  Unfortunately, I've been accused of "trying to make the songs exactly like the original recordings" and not appreciating the fact that "as musicians, we can do what we want with the songs" - 'you have to allow for creativity, it's not written in stone that it has to be played identically to the original etc etc'.

Which is, of course, a load of steaming horse-shit and an attempt to justify the fact that they haven't learned the songs properly.  It's the old "It's not a bug, it's a feature" argument.

I'm not trying to turn us into a tribute band, with every little nuance of every song faithfully replicated, I'd settle for 'right chords, right words, same format (unless there is a pressing reason to change it)'.

randomhandclaps

Consider 'Family' 'Hostage'...T'is all I'm saying.

John_P

Sometimes people have a a genuine reason for not nailing a tune before rehearsal but you can usually tell by the personality and it's a one off - I can't see how the people you're describing will change.   There a loads of musicians who are happy just being able to say they are in a band and enjoying getting together to rehearse with the vague idea of gigging eventually.  This usually goes with the idea of rehearsing until the set is really tight before booking gigs.

I haven't come across many bands (if any) that go anywhere with a really clear goal - sounds like a brutally honest conversation is needed about what they want - it reads like you all have different ideas of where you want the band to go.

     

I've got a second rehearsal with a new band tomorrow - we agreed 4 songs for the first one with the deal that if it sounded ok we'll do another if that goes ok we'll make a start on a timetable of sorting the admin/pa/gigs and move on.  If it goes ok tomorrow - i.e. everyone has learned the songs and is happy with the set suggestions then we'll start booking gigs and moving forward.  After the second session we'll know enough to know if anyone isn't right and replace them - or at least give them a heads up that they out of order and need to sort things super quick if they want to stay.  

If you want a gigging band you need musicians that want to gig and will work hard enough between rehearsals to make that happen.

viz

Emp_Fab said:

viz said:

Good luck. It's just that some are natural leaders and instinctively take up the reins, like you have. The others may not have the inclination.

Have a Wiz.... just because you've flattered me.  :-*  Nobody's called me a 'natural leader' before.  I like that...  Hmmm.... "Natural Leader....".  Has a ring to it dontcha think ?  ~O)

getting a wiz is always worth a little white lie I feel.

Catthan

Are they being lazy? if yes, are they naturally lazy or simply not bothered with this band-project for some reason?

Are they experienced player's? busy? Are you sure they really like the repertoire? Are they not bothered about it? Are they not assertive enough to speak up when they don't like a song or a decision about smth?

Not adding much here, just stating that it's a multi-faceted reality and any combination of issues requires slightly different handling.

The easiest would be inherently lazy and not so good players which means you can sack them.. 

The "as musicians we can do what we want with the songs" mentality is,, well,, not good. Imho it's true only when everybody knows the song like the hair of their asses that you can really do whatever and be effectively creative without risking fucking the bandmates up doing so. Maybe that's smth you can explain and ask them to try your way just for 1 song. If they don't like it fine. I'm sure they will. And then let them be creative.

You can do that with the most reasonable to talk to out of the bunch. The rest will see how he progresses, ego will kick in and they should hopefully make a better effort. One important leadership skill is inspiring and influencing. Lead by example.. 

Smth else that I find even with some really good and experienced pros is that they're OK with a just OK performance as long as the crowd is happy drinking and dancing. That's reasonable but OTOH a bit insulting towards the audience and one's self as it justifies and promotes mediocracy imho. I'm not saying that everybody should play like, say, Satriani night after night, rather try and play to their full potential.