First hand wound pickups, success at last! Updated

xmrchi

Hi all I bought a brilliant pickup winder from @t1000, which is fantastic.
I dont want to become the next oil city but I would like to make some pickups for myself and a few friends, so the journey began today, I bought some alnico 5 magnets and one set of decent flatwork experiment on.
I will eventually make my own hopefully out of carbon fibre, but at this early stage I really want to start on getting to grips with the art of winding..
I completed one wind today, the wire 60g so abit thicker than usual, so could only get 5300 winds before the pickup was full.

The winds looked really neat but I didn't put enough pressure on the tensioner clip so they're too loose so I'll just have to start again,

Do any of the pros have any words of wisdom for me:-D

What do you guys think, punching above me weight with this or something so dedicate some time too?

What I learned was :
Your eyes go really bloody funny concentrating on keeping the wire on the pickup.
Different gauge wire means a different amount of turns

Tension is really important.

Its def a skill, and should never be sniffed at.


http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag268/mrmatthewharper/Mobile Uploads/20150227_233129_zpsh2k0ohja.jpg

http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag268/mrmatthewharper/Mobile Uploads/20150227_233203_zpsky0prgps.jpg

Adam_MD

At least you're trying even if you don't become the next Tim Mills

I'd love to have a go at that the actual science behind pickups fascinates me. I'd really enjoy being able to experiment with different wire/magnets to see what works for you.

Keep up with it

WezV

I have done a few.

my winder was proper rough.   a bench drill with the speed set low.  I mounted a  disc of plywood to a bolt and put the bobbin on that.  i had a piece of wood with a hole in as the wire guide and controlled tension by holding the wire between a piece of felt.  the hole in the wood aligned with one side of the bobbin and the depth stop on the drill was aligned with the other side so i could adjust the height with my other hand.  i turned it on and off with my third hand

surprisingly, it worked reasonably well.  just a bit too fast really.  tension was all about getting my grip on the wire right

I would get the right size wire.  as you say, tension is important, and will be different on thinner wire

OilCityPickups

Okay ... by metric measurement for a Strat pickup you want .063mm which is the same as 42awg in US measurement. It may be you have.060 which is fine ... a little thinner but not much. You should be able to get 9000 plus turns of .060 on a Strat bobbin ... which makes me think you are winding WAY too slack! You should aim for about 8250 which will give you a nice Strat sound. You need to get the wire so tight it breaks then back off a little! Not sure why you have so much magnet sticking through the pickup base .... won't do any good there at all!!!

Your winding rig looks very cool and is similar to the ones I started with, but watch out for 'switch bounce' if you wind too fast ... it will inflate your turn count! 

PS the 'pillow block' bearings are the same as I have in 'Gloria' my current hand winding machine :-)

xmrchi

@WezV @TheGuitarWeasel thanks guys genuinely useful info, im off to the guitar show in a bit they hopefully have some wire there, and you're right way way to slack, I'll adjust the tension in my erm peg tensioner, and aim for 8k turns, it's bloody fun this tho I tell ya! Just the thought of gigging with a pickup I made myself makes me feel funny inside!

Nomad

As a matter of interest, what sort of RPM is used for this?

xmrchi

Oooh good question @Nomad erm I'm not sure but I would estimate 4 rotations per second but that's just a guess :-)

hobbio

@mrchi if you're making a tele set at some point over the next few weeks/months I know someone with a tele kit build going on that might be able to test them for you....

Nomad

mrchi said:

Oooh good question @Nomad erm I'm not sure but I would estimate 4 rotations per second but that's just a guess :-)

That would be 240rpm. About 22 minutes to wind 5300 turns?

OilCityPickups

Wind em faster! My hand winder does 1000 RPM plus ... while my CNC machine does 600RPM. It is very difficult in my experience to keep consistent wind tension by hand for 22 minutes!!! I take a bout 6-8 minutes to wind a good tight Strat coil .... with a full scatter pattern!!!

Nomad

1000rpm and well under 10 minutes sounds better. I'm asking because I have a small metalwork lathe with electronic speed control...

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cl300m-metal-lathe

...and I've been wondering what it would take to make the additional bits to use it as a winder. So far, I think I need some sort of arbor and bobbin holder, a guide to ensure that the wire is constrained within the height of the bobbin, and a turns counter of some sort. (Ash, did you post a link to a fairly cheap electronic counter recently?)

Judging from the photo above, it looks like a tensioner can be made from an adjustable clamp thingy with some felt - but would that result in a non-scatter wind? I dare say some sort of cam arrangement could be used to produce a pseudo scatter wind, but I think that's beyond me for now. To get a scatter wind, then, would involve just feeding the wire through some felt held in the hand?

Where's a good place to get things like bobbins and wire? I'm interested in making a pickup for an 8-string lap steel, so I guess an 8-pole bobbin with suitable spacing, or maybe a blade type that's long enough (guessing string width of 70mm or so).

Nomad

Nomad said:

(Ash, did you post a link to a fairly cheap electronic counter recently?)

Ah, this one...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251609770812?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Ordered.

xmrchi

@hobbio as soon as i have perfected winding this one and sorting the pole pieces, I shall do a tele pickup for you bud, that's a promise!

@TheGuitarWeasel I was being a pussy with the speed I'll man up and go faster on round 2!

hobbio

Coolio, looking forward to it

OilCityPickups

Nomad said:

1000rpm and well under 10 minutes sounds better. I'm asking because I have a small metalwork lathe with electronic speed control...

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cl300m-metal-lathe

...and I've been wondering what it would take to make the additional bits to use it as a winder. So far, I think I need some sort of arbor and bobbin holder, a guide to ensure that the wire is constrained within the height of the bobbin, and a turns counter of some sort. (Ash, did you post a link to a fairly cheap electronic counter recently?)

Judging from the photo above, it looks like a tensioner can be made from an adjustable clamp thingy with some felt - but would that result in a non-scatter wind? I dare say some sort of cam arrangement could be used to produce a pseudo scatter wind, but I think that's beyond me for now. To get a scatter wind, then, would involve just feeding the wire through some felt held in the hand?

Where's a good place to get things like bobbins and wire? I'm interested in making a pickup for an 8-string lap steel, so I guess an 8-pole bobbin with suitable spacing, or maybe a blade type that's long enough (guessing string width of 70mm or so).

I import my bobbins wire etc etc fron the US there are loads of sources online. 

axisus

A very interesting thread! One to remember.

xmrchi

Thanks @axisus I'll try again tonight, and pop the results here, :-)

OilCityPickups

More than happy to share my knowledge ... You will use a lot of wire ... and have many frustrations when you get past the simple designs., but ultimately 'winding your own' is rewarding. 

The other thing you will gain is an ability to cut through the bulls**t and know EXACTLY what makes a good pickup ... and be able to see 'snake oil' for what it is. You will get a feel of which factors REALLY  make a difference ... 

The pickup makers section on Music Electronics forum is a good place to start .... a bit USA biased, but you will find Jason (Lollar) is a fairly regular contributor ... Tom from Mojotone, and yes ... I stick my oar in occasionally.

xmrchi

@TheGuitarWeasel thanks bud, I took apart a humbucker yesterday and yes that did look bloody confusing, but small steps and all that, I def need some more wire tho!
I'll def pop onto that forum, I can see his being a time consuming hobby!

OilCityPickups

I have a bulk load of older pickups up on e bay at the moment ... useful for pulling apart and re using parts if your interested .... to anybody on the forum I chuck in a few extras.

xmrchi

@TheGuitarWeasel def interested, but have just blown my cash at the show, and buying the winder, however I get paid on the 20th so if you still have them I'll bite your hand off :-)
Or I can pay you a deposit to hold em :-)