First hand wound pickups, success at last! Updated

Nomad

TheGuitarWeasel said:

I import my bobbins wire etc etc fron the US there are loads of sources online. 

Thanks Ash - I'll go a-searchin'.

Am I right in thinking that Fender style pickups don't actually have a bobbin? Just two flat bits with cylindrical magnets in between?

OilCityPickups

Nomad said:

TheGuitarWeasel said:

I import my bobbins wire etc etc fron the US there are loads of sources online. 

Thanks Ash - I'll go a-searchin'.

Am I right in thinking that Fender style pickups don't actually have a bobbin? Just two flat bits with cylindrical magnets in between?

You are right with proper ones yes ... cheap copies and some US Fenders believe it or not ... have plastic bobbins that the magnets push through. They don't sound right however as it's impossible to get wire into the magnetic sweet spot close to the rod magnets.

Nomad

TheGuitarWeasel said:

You are right with proper ones yes ... cheap copies and some US Fenders believe it or not ... have plastic bobbins that the magnets push through. They don't sound right however as it's impossible to get wire into the magnetic sweet spot close to the rod magnets.

Okay, noted. (I guess that going for traditional flatwork means I have a better chance of finding to suit 8 strings.)

What about magnet length on a lap steel? Given that the strings aren't laid out with a fretboard radius to follow, am I right in thinking that they can all be the same length/height? (Although, I guess if the two end magnets are at suitable heights, it would seem that there's scope to adjust the ones in between.) 

OilCityPickups

Flat or curved makes bugger all much difference :-) I'd use P Bass length 13.5mm magnets if you want a bass biased sound  ... that will give you a wound width (between the flatwork of about 6mm ...like a P90. Or 17.5mm magnets ... giving a wound width of 10mm or so if you prefer a Fender type sound.

Nomad

Flat is good. 

For a given number of turns, the smaller wound width (or coil length) translates into a coil that sees more string length, yes?

I was looking at the A2 ones at Cermag, which are only available in 17.5mm. Does the magnet type have the same sort of effect with these as it does with humbuckers? In other words, if I like the sweet character that A2 imparts to my Lemon Drop's humbuckers, can I expect a single coil (albeit brighter) to have a similar sweet character?

What's the fibreboard flatwork stuff like to cut?

xmrchi

Round two this eve, I managed 5.5k turns this time, and they were a lot tighter, clearly not as tight as they should be tho!

As you can seethe flat work lifted on the left slightly and i didnt notice until it was too late but i wired it up popped it in the test guitar and it worked! well chuffed, did have a  low output due to the number of windings but sounded not bad..

Im going to keep this pickup as it was my first ever up and running one and now will buy some proper flat works and magnets and keep going till my rank amateur position turns into standard amateur!!

@theguitarweasel I hope you don't mind me pickuing your brains,  what magnets would you recommend , wheres best to get them and how do you cut the magnets.

Sorry for all the questions but you are the Pickup guru, so I am certainly willing to listen!  Thank you in advance

OilCityPickups

For all practical purposes you can't cut alnico ... it can be ground ... if you like eating toxic cobalt :-) ... but buy the magnets you need in the diameter you need of the lengths you need ... it's only marginally softer than diamond!

Standby for a PM :-)

xmrchi

Brilliant thank you @theguitarweasel

Heres the pic i forgot to add!

http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag268/mrmatthewharper/Mobile Uploads/20150302_190846_zpsmkw25mid.jpg

xmrchi

http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag268/mrmatthewharper/20150306_103043_zpseafycnu5.jpg

Phase 2,
I have made my first bobbins one with alnico 2,one alnico 3 and one Alnico 5, fibre board from axesrus, and magnets from a specialist company,

I have some 62awg wire from brocott.co.uk which should be here today.
Popping into brum now to see if I can get any braided wire,

Really looking forward to honing my skills on these.

BigMonka

Making your own pickups is proper cool, good luck with it! That first one is looking pretty good :-)

xmrchi

@BigMonka thanks buddy, it's more frustrating than cool tho hahsj

BigMonka

mrchi said:

@BigMonka thanks buddy, it's more frustrating than cool tho hahsj

Maybe I should have phrased it as "it's really cool to have pickups you've made yourself" - the end product is definitely cool even if the process isn't!

xmrchi

@BigMonka damn good point, I'll be giving one away for free, as a review piece so i can see if they sound as good to other people as friends usually tell you what you want to hear! , so keep an eye on this thread :-D

xmrchi

Right so I wired the alnico 2 bobbin last night, got 8000 winds so I know the tension was good, and it looked great, I hooked it up to the test guitar, and got nothing from it at all, very perplexed I email ash from oilcity due to exhausting all ideas, and I made a huge noobie mistake of having the magnets North and south on the same bobbin,, not a great start! But now I know!
I made my own N/S detector using a thin tube and a circular magnet, which works really well. So I'll start again this eve :-D

xmrchi

So completed the first proper pickup today, 8000 winds, all Pole Piece's  pointing in the right direction (Doh), so hooked it up t the test guitar, straight to the jack, and recorded it through my Tascam Dr02  with the onboard stereo mics, so no line ins . 

I am quite impressed at the sound of this thing!

Listen with head phones if you can:)

Thanks again to @TheGuitarWeasel, who has really helped me through this with some stellar advice. a Pickup will be winging its way to him as a thankyou.

Nomad

Sounds nice and clear. Plenty of top end without being sharp. What is the test guitar, what position is the pickup in, and what amp/speaker did you use?

xmrchi

Thanks @Nomad Its a home made guitar/monstrosity, I bodged together for the purpose of the test, pine hollow body maple neck, The Amp is a cheap Hiwatt g15 Maxwatt which cost me 50 quid, but does the job in the living room. and the pickup is in the neck position

hers a pic.

http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag268/mrmatthewharper/20150308_181459_zpshhwt5rlx.jpg

OilCityPickups

You have just learned a valuable lesson! Scatter winding produces sweeter non ice pick top ends on single coils in particular. This is what people pay for in hand wound pickups. You will go on to learn that different winding patterns on different parts of the coil can vary this effect :-)

Full marks for making a polarity checker! 

If you make a second pickup ... wind it in the opposite direction and make sure it is the opposite polarity you will have a pair that are hum cancelling when they are both on. Bring the coils together and you will have a crude humbucker! 

And part of being an 'expert' is the pleasure of passing on knowledge ... I'm glad some of it was of use :-)

xmrchi

@TheGuitarWeasel I will def be making more, it's addictive! It's certainly a dark art, and so much more to learn, im really looking forward to trying different winding patterns and also trying wax potting...... Oooh the fun!

steamabacus

Brilliant. Have a wow. That must be quite a feeling of achievement - I mean, it's almost alchemy, winding a bit of wire around a few magnets and making musical electricity.
=D>