Modern vehicles are just so much shite

Phil_aka_Pip

Vehicle management systems to start with. Who TF needs them?  We can live with electronic ignition because its more reliable than mechanical contact breakers but who needs a system that won't run the engine just because there is a dodgy connection to the instrument panel?

Electric window winders. Always go wrong, leaving you with a window that won't shut/open, or in the case of a working colleague, gratuitously wind themselves open after he's parked & locked the car and walked away from it.

Dimmers on interior lights. WTF? Who cares? 'kin just switch 'em off when I close the door!

Central locking. Always goes wrong. Sometimes won't let even the legal owner start the engine (link to "vehicle management"). What was wrong with proper keys?

Things that go wrong most - always put in the least accessible place.

Torx bolts. WHY for God's sake? Was there anything wrong with Allen bolts, cross/slit head screws and ordinary hexagonal nuts?

The people that design these things are fucking morons and I'd love to kick the shit out of them.

ICBM

Modern cars are actually much more reliable than older ones.

I agree about some of the unnecessary complication resulting in new (and sometimes much more expensive) ways for things to go wrong, but they happen less often. Nowadays most people, most of the time, can simply get in the thing and drive it every day without even thinking about maintenance, servicing or anything else except putting fuel in it.

They also perform much better, are more economical, far safer and more comfortable. Not to mention that in real terms they're much cheaper than they used to be for all these improvements.

If you want to remind yourself how far things have improved, find someone with a 70s Ford and ask to go for a ride in it.

randomhandclaps

ICBM said:

If you want to remind yourself how far things have improved, find someone with a 70s Ford and ask to go for a ride in it.

What?  What about stranger danger?

Phil_aka_Pip

I had a 70s Ford. Most of its problems stemmed from it being knackered but at the time I couldn't afford anything else. I also had a J reg mini van. It conked out once after dark in the rain, but since the fault turned out to be a broken wire in the LT side of the ignition circuit the problem was fixed at the side of the road in 10 mins with a penknife. No computers, no expensive software & hardware diagnostics, no mechanic callout.

gilby

Just having this conversation yesterday at work. Mateys car is not accelerating well so it needs a diagnostic and he starts going on about the "good old days", borrow a timing gun, clean your contacts, a bit of spray in the carb and new plugs and points.
Yeah, I remember all that fun in the pissing rain and yes the performance improved and my economy would jump from 23 mpg to maybe 25mpg (for a while) in mkIII cortina.
Massive backward step all this engine management malarkey.
Although I'm happy not to have all the toys to go wrong.

Phil_aka_Pip

I also had an A-reg (1983?) Ford Escort van. First of the CVH engines. It had electronic ignition, but no "engine management" to speak of. It was boringly reliable, but eventually died of rust. It was basic, but it pulled a load, held the road well. All I had to to to it was change the engine oil, which I did religiously. 

ICBM

I used to drive Citröen 2CVs, and I loved that ability to fix them beside the road with a paperclip and a bit of string... it's just a shame that you need to quite often!

To be honest I can't be bothered with that now - my Renault Scenic can carry nearly twice the number of people, about four times the amount of stuff, has at least half again higher top speed and less than half the 0-60 time, corners and stops better despite being more than double the weight, does the same mpg if I drive it sensibly, starts every time, is warm and comfortable, and I'd probably survive a crash in it. And I'm not under the bonnet every weekend or underneath it with rust treatment in the summer. And it would cost me about as much to replace (with another one of about the same age) as you'd have to pay for a decent 2CV these days.

OK, it's not great in snow and the 2CV was, but you had to dress like Scott of the Antarctic when you wanted to get in it in the middle of winter. And yes, when the Scenic's electric handbrake mechanism needed replacing (sealed unit from Renault, can't be repaired) it cost as much as my first 2CV did! But that's the only thing that's gone wrong with it that actually stopped me driving, in five years...

musicegbdf

Years ago I bought my wife a 2CV Dolly , I loved it , but it was really a death trap.
I now drive a modern hatchback deisel. It is 4 wheel drive , 0 to 60 in under 8 seconds and I get 55 to the gallon and starts every time .
I go back to the good old days of "damp start" everytime it rained , WD40 on HT leads , and my Escort Mk 1 had a brake failure and I ended up under a truck and inches from being decapitated ... Yeah the good old days

bertie

classic  case of "nostalgic tinted spectacles"  I think.    Im lucky enough have had a new car every 3 or 4 years since 1989,  I learnt to drive in a 70s mark one Escort, had two minis (a 68 and a 78)  and all I can say is, if you think modern cars are more unreliable you're in cuckoo land.   Theres more on them to go wrong, granted- but (touch wood) Ive had 1 major problem on 1 of the new cars. (Ford Mondeo, pre turbo or something or other kept losing power....)   The 60s/70s cars, mechanically were a nightmare........and theres one uber uber mega important thing thats massively better with any modern car

BRAKES

mike_l

@ICBM ; you're doing well if your Renault hasn't broken down.

I know most of the AA men around Cambridge from my 2 years working at Renault..........

Mostly electrical issues too.........

Honestly if we get 1 AA truck with a breakdown a week with Peugeot I'd probably be over estimating, and the ones that do are usually the older, less well cared for models.......

 

BTW my 13YO, 100+K mileage Volvo has never given me any problems, or had anything other than regular service parts in 7 years......

Phil_aka_Pip

bertie said:

classic  case of "nostalgic tinted spectacles"  I think.   

:-S

If you say so. All I will say is that although there were more faults, the faults were fixable using standard tools, and components you could get from your local autospares shop or garage. You never had "engine management" systems shutting down an engine for silly reasons like the one I described in the Vauxhall thread.

TTony

Just give me a nice, comfortable Vauxhall combi van.

Phil_aka_Pip

TTony said:

Just give me a nice, comfortable Vauxhall combi van.

Yours for "the right price"

ICBM

mike_l said:

@ICBM ; you're doing well if your Renault hasn't broken down.

I know most of the AA men around Cambridge from my 2 years working at Renault..........

Mostly electrical issues too.........

The big dashboard display panel did die as well to be fair, but that didn't stop me driving it at least to get home and then up to the dealer for a new one. Apart from that it's been rock solid, the most reliable car I've owned.

Even the handbrake motor failure was the eventual result of a bodged warranty repair to a sticking brake caliper that happened not long after I got it. (So in the end, it would probably have been cheaper to pay my usual trusted mechanic to do it rather than get the cowboys who did.) Also doesn't quite qualify as a 'breakdown' since the car was still drivable, the disc just got a bit hot.

I know Renault do have a bad reputation, and I can't deny that repair types don't generally like them much - but it's a bit like me and modern Marshalls probably... I tend to think of them as 'unreliable' because they seem to break a bit more than comparable amps, but actually in proportion to the numbers out there, they're probably not *that* much worse. The majority of owners have no problems, and I only see the ones who do.

I said this in another thread too, but really all modern cars are basically reliable, and you can get a dud from a good brand as well as a good one from a bad brand - it just comes down to pot luck with the individual car mostly. Even if proportionately twice as many break down in the bad brands as the good, that still won't be anything like a majority overall.

My dad has far more trouble with his two old Mercs than I do with my modern Renault - which also shows how much general standards have improved in nearly thirty years. I have to laugh at him when he says he doesn't want a new car because "there's so much to go wrong"... when one of his is in the garage yet again.

VimFuego

I guess my only complaint about modern cars is that when they go wrong, you often have to take em to a main dealer or specialist dealer. I was talking to my local mechanic (bloody good spanner monkey) and he was saying that he doesn't have the diagnostic tools for some makes which means he can't work on their engine systems. Guys like him are getting kinda forced out of the market.

hywelg

I'll put up with the problems new cars have. Let me list the problems my old cars had.......

1972 Vauxhall Viva, ha ha ha,,, fond memories of not going places cos it wouldn't start. Glad it got nicked, sad when the coppers found it.
1975approx. Morris 1300. Door fell off. The top hinge pulled away from the pillar because it had rotted. Wheel fell off, drive shaft snapped
1979 approx, Datsun 120Y where to start, good reliable engine, everything else rotted, couldn't open the windows because the exhaust fumes got sucked in.
1982 Triumph Dolomite 1850, lovely car, rot box. Needed new gearbox when i sold it....

All of the above would have regular starting problems in winter.

1984 Ford Cortina, Valve guides wore out with very little mileage on em. Burnt oil badly. More reliable.

1987 & 1996 Ford Sierras (2 off) getting better since both had electronic ignition. Gobbled fuel.

2006 Ford Galaxy Diesel. Apart from some trouble with the rear passenger heater (which burns neat diesel or not and causes loads of smoke!) way way more reliable than any previous car I've owned, bigger heavier and yet will easily go nearly twice as far on a gallon.

bertie

Phil_aka_Pip said:

 All I will say is that although there were more faults, the faults were fixable using standard tools, and components you could get from your local autospares shop or garage. 

I dont doubt it,  but its not the same thing tho is it ? 

Deadman

I have to be honest, I prefer my 2008 Mondeo to my 1979 Ford Capri.

Poor old Phil though, I feel your pain bud.

Phil_aka_Pip

No it isn't and its what pisses me off about modern vehicles. You're left with a useless lump of junk on your driveway that's going to cost you a fortune to fix and you're dependent on someone else fixing it for you.

bertie

apart from changing the EGR valve on mrs berts zafira.  Ive never fixed (or had to) a car in me life.  Tinkering wth engines is like plumbing,  a "get a man to do it"  job for me.

ICBM

Phil_aka_Pip said:

No it isn't and its what pisses me off about modern vehicles. You're left with a useless lump of junk on your driveway that's going to cost you a fortune to fix and you're dependent on someone else fixing it for you.

That is true, but it's swings and roundabouts. The chance of it becoming a dead lump of metal are much smaller, so - especially if you're not able to fix it yourself anyway, as the vast majority of owners couldn't even in the good old days - you're much better off with something that doesn't break in the first place.

I feel the same about modern amps - I use a valve amp and don't take a spare partly because with a couple of minutes, a few spare valves and fuses, I can almost certainly fix my own amp on stage. A solid-state amp or a digital modeller, definitely not. But the chances of *needing* to fix the valve amp are several times higher, so for someone less willing to tinker with it at the gig, the modern technology is still more reliable, not less.