Endorsements ... do you care?

OilCityPickups

Recently a couple of guitarists who appear to be on the up (or at least it's their opinion that they are) have contacted me and asked to be if I have an endorsement scheme as they are interested in using my pickups. My attitude has always been this: I give pro discount to OEMs provided they make it clear that the pickups fitted to their instruments are mine. But I don't give away free gear in return for big-ups. If Jo Satriani decided to use OCP he'd pay the same as Joe Smith from Wolverhampton.
My argument has always been that how's a customer going to make a value judgement about goods if the role model who uses them is paid to effectively?
I've politely refused the two young chaps .... but ....
Does anybody here really take notice of 'star' endorsements?

John_P

The final decision about buying gear would come down to whether I liked it or not - but seeing a player that I rate highly using something does add some credibility that might make me have a look at it.  It also helps raise the profile of gear.  Your price are so good that it would almost be cheeky for a high profile player to ask for a discount but it would raise profile of the Oil City name....  I'm sure that the main reason for exampe with BK doing so well.

digitalscream

From the other side of the coin, I've had a couple of endorsements and I can honestly say it wasn't about getting free (fine chance...) or discounted gear. From my perspective, the endorsers were far more well-known than I/my band was, so it was more about getting more exposure.

The key thing is that I absolutely refuse to be a gear whore - this was stuff that I was already using, and would continue to do so whether I was an endorsee or not (in fact, I'm no longer an endorsee of either company, and their products are still in my main rig).

The simple question to ask people who come to you for endorsements is this: "Which of my pickups do you use at the moment?"

If the answer is "none", then it's not worth continuing the conversation. If it's "yes", then it could well be worth doing some research to see if you could get some promotion out of their end of things by giving them a 30% discount on their next order, or maybe making them a custom signature pickup...it doesn't always have to come down to money.

ourmaninthenorth

I'm afraid the answer is yes, whether overtly or subliminally, we're all at the mercy of the marketing grinder. Your approach is refreshing and gives me more cause for interest than if you'd just announced a mega deal with xyz, however I'm not going to have to put bread on your table. I do however wish you extremely well. 

mike_l

IIRC Fractal doesn't give away the AXE FX............

 

I tend to buy gear which suits me best what ever anyone else uses.

It seems that some players use whatever gear they get free/cheap (IE Dave Mustaine went from Jackson to Dean......)

stickyfiddle

Put me down for "don't really care". I like some endorsed gear because of its specs (I like the Eric Johnson Strats much more than I like EJ as a player). I guess it might be useful to get an idea of another player's tone if you knew what he's using, but there's no guarantee that what's on their endorsement list is what's on their records anyway.

JookyChap

I think the last time I bought something because it was endorsed, was Kevin Keegan football boots - and as my Dad pointed out at the time, they won't make you play any better, which sadly proved true.

There are benefits to both sides if it is done for the right reasons, but credibility is a fine line to tightrope (need coffee) so for it to work both sides have to go into it for the right reasons.

I agree with @stickyfiddle though, where it gets interesting is when an artist is actually involved in coming up with something new. The Johnny Marr Jaguar is a good example, whereas the Jon Bonamassa <this week's new guitar> probably isn't.

I saw this a while back which is an honest approach I think.

digitalscream

mike_l said:

IIRC Fractal doesn't give away the AXE FX............

True, but I know several people who bought one after finding out that a number of their favourite players used them (Periphery, Vai etc). It's silly to completely throw away the notion at one's favourite artists' choice of gear can affect your own choice; everybody starts off somewhere, and those relationships can be beneficial. It does really help if the endorsee isn't just using it because they got free gear, though...that pretty much ensures that they'll be able to honestly act as an ambassador for the brand. Take Jaden's approach, for example: he won't even consider somebody for an endorsement unless they already have two of his guitars.

Ironically, I bought a Washburn N4 without really knowing a lot of Nuno's stuff, and became a fan afterwards.

ICBM

I'm far more likely to be put off by an endorsement than attracted by it. It always makes me suspicious that the gear wouldn't sell on its own, or is overpriced due to paying the endorsee, or giving them free gear, or some combination of the above... and that's even if I don't actively dislike the player.

I very rarely buy the exact same gear any of my heroes use, anyway - I long since learnt that it doesn't always work as well for me, and I should just find what does and use that.

randomhandclaps

digitalscream said:

Ironically, I bought a Washburn N4 without really knowing a lot of Nuno's stuff, and became a fan afterwards.

I did this with a Jeff Beck Strat when I was younger.  I saw a used one with a couple of marks on it in Chandlers for £600 and loved it.  At the time my knowledge of Jeff Beck stretched to Hi Ho Silver Lining.

OilCityPickups

It's interesting about the 'gear you already use' thing, as neither young chap was an OCP user ... they were doing the rounds of the manufacturers seeing what they could get for nout. As John P said ... if the guys had already been customers and chose my gear on merits, I probably would have talked designing them something special ... or whatever. But cynical 'hunting for free shit' actually puts my back up a bit ... don't know why.
I'd be a liar if I said that I wouldn't ever consider doing a freebee ... if one of my guitar idols (sadly most of whom are dead) came to me and said 'jeez man I tried your pickups and really loved em' I might just give em one .... out of being a dazed fan. But the whole 'let's play musical manufacturers ... when I stop playing he who gives me the most free stuff I'll climb into bed with ...' leaves me cold.

GuitarMonkey

TheGuitarWeasel said:

I've politely refused the two young chaps 

Correct response IMO.

mike_l

FWIW I first wanted a Marshall because Dave Murray and Adrian Smith use them.

Although it was a long time before I got a Marshall, and not the same exact model* that either used.

 

*After getting a DSL, I found Adrian Smith has started using one, although mine a combo, and not the head/cab set-up.

digitalscream

For what it's worth (and in case you weren't aware), there are usually tiers of endorsement at most companies. Tier 1 endorsees get free stuff, top-priority tour support etc. Tier 2 get a heavy discount to cost price, Tier 3 get 20% etc.

Personally, I think people who whore themselves around to try to get free shit should have 20% added to the price of everything.

John_P

TheGuitarWeasel said:

It's interesting about the 'gear you already use' thing, as neither young chap was an OCP user ... they were doing the rounds of the manufacturers seeing what they could get for nout. As John P said ... if the guys had already been customers and chose my gear on merits, I probably would have talked designing them something special ... or whatever. But cynical 'hunting for free shit' actually puts my back up a bit ... don't know why.
I'd be a liar if I said that I wouldn't ever consider doing a freebee ... if one of my guitar idols (sadly most of whom are dead) came to me and said 'jeez man I tried your pickups and really loved em' I might just give em one .... out of being a dazed fan. But the whole 'let's play musical manufacturers ... when I stop playing he who gives me the most free stuff I'll climb into bed with ...' leaves me cold.

That's the right attitude I think - it could be tempting to just give out some freebies to anyone you think might get you some publicity - that's very different to working with someone to build a product they will use because they genuinely like it. 
You enjoy developing new products and trying to explore new ideas - if that was done with a player then that's a how I think of endorsing - not someone scrounging freebies.   
On the other hand I can see how some makers would just put it down as part of the marketing budget and think of it as no different to the cost of advertising in a mag etc and anything that gets your name out there could lead to extra business.  It would at least partly come down to how much you want to grow and expand with the all the advantages and disadvantages that would bring...

OilCityPickups

digitalscream said:

Personally, I think people who whore themselves around to try to get free shit should have 20% added to the price of everything.

I'll add that to my site's 'buy it now' pricing structure

ThePrettyDamned

Endorsements are something I've never really, truly understood. I was at a gig once, and at the end, the guy said, "thanks to esp guitars". Err, rock n roll, man...

I think it's down to the company, but endorsed products are inevitably more expensive. Also, they get bad reviews if they don't make you sound exactly like that player, which is often down to playing style and rack mounted effects ("I want to sound like David gilmour... ").

Your pickups are already amazingly well priced, don't give them away I'm sure bare knuckles have gone up in price a lot since I first discovered them...

OilCityPickups

John_P said:

It would at least partly come down to how much you want to grow and expand with the all the advantages and disadvantages that would bring...

I have always put a huge store by business ethics ... so whilst expansion is the target ... the means to achieve it must always fit in with my personal sense of what's right and wrong. One of the reasons OCP doesn't use a High St bank or import parts from certain countries. To my mind the whoring is just as wrong when the bootie belongs to the manufacturer

mike257

I've seen smaller companies taking the "Here's some artists we work with who use our products, but they pay full price like everyone else and only use it because they choose to" angle, which plays as being a bit more sincere to me. I can't imagine manufacturers outside the mainstream brands have got the margins that allow them to give stuff away.

OilCityPickups

Web space is an easy thing to give to customers ... if anybody is recording with my pickups and I like their work (that'd be the clincher for me)  ... I'll happily give em some promo space on my site. But to my mind that's a different thing.

guitarfishbay

Unless you've massively increased prices since the last time I checked I think asking for discounts is cheeky as the price is already low enough!

As stated, a lot of people are interested in the exposure as much as the discount, especially less established artists.