Rolling Fingers in Arpeggios

I was just doing some practicing and memorising Major 7 Arp Shapes and I noticed these have some awkward patterns.

I am a bit stumped to the advice given on Justin's page here

http://www.justinguitar.com/en/AR-001-Major7arp.php

He says never to Barre when playing Arpeggios(in the Tips For Learning paragraph), but some of these Maj7 patterns I find my self rolling my fingers over to the next note. I can't see how you can avoid this or whether that rolling would be classed as Barring?

Pattern 3 I roll my index finger from the G string to the B srtring on those notes (both ascending and descending)

Pattern 4 I roll my 3rd finger from the G string to the B string (both ascending and descending) .

I haven't even entertained Pattern 2 yet. Eeeeek!

If, like Justin says, you use only the tips of your fingers, I would find in these Maj7 patterns that you would be kind of "Jumping Strings" or "Hopping onto Notes"and it sounds sort of disjointed.

Is the rolling of the fingers a bad habit?

Thanks.

 

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Comments

  • mike_lmike_l Frets: 5672
    My old teacher taught me to deliberately roll my fingers. I find it sounds smoother that lifting and re-fretting with the same finger on an adjacent string at the same fret.

    Ringleader of the Cambridge cartel, pedal champ and king of the dirt boxes (down to 21) 

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  • ChrisMusicChrisMusic Frets: 1118
    To get each finger more used to skipping across the strings, rather than being tempted roll them, or even to barre:

    You could try doing a slow pick sweep 6th to 1st string and back, whilst just fingering a fret with the first finger tip, and moving that finger across in synchrony with the pick, then start again next fret up with second finger, then third, then fourth, and back.

    I hope that make some sense.
    A bit jazzy, but not very melodic, but good exercise I think.

    An alternative is to do 6th to 1st with one finger, then 1st to 6th with the next finger, and cycle through all the permutations.

    Or even string skip !   (ie 6th, 4, 2, 5, 3, 1 etc)

    Lots of open strings to control too.
    Let me know if this works for you, cheers, Chris

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  • @mike_l

    It's does seem that is the more natural way your fingers want to go and it works too without sounding both strings at the same time.

    @ChrisMusic

    I think I get you Chris but am not used to Sweep picking, it's a million miles from the style I play. I tend to alternate pick the Arp, I'm really a medium paced player, not shred at all.

    In your reply did you mean to play the whole Arpeggio with just 1 finger ie: the same finger? Sounds tricky.

    Is rolling such a bad thing? Does is cause problems with something I have not yet discovered?

    Thanks guys.

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  • ChrisMusicChrisMusic Frets: 1118
    edited October 2013
    Hey Bellycaster, I did wonder if I had explained it very well, it seems easy to show, but as soon as you try to put it into words, boy is that a tough call.  Anyway no worries, I'll try to shed a little light on it.  I may also go back and edit the previous post for clarity if I get it right now.
    I am too learning to play, all over again, after far too many years without touching a guitar, so it is an odd mix of the new, and familiarity.  And a bit frustrating at times.  If I can help a bit along the way, that's great.  So here goes...

    Firstly rolling finger tips between strings is valid technique I believe, as is rolling a barre, (just a but tougher and maybe more restrictive in use).  But you can build dexterity to move between notes more like Justin was suggesting too, and that gives you more techniques to call on as you gain experience.  And that's a journey that doesn't end, hopefully.  The day you know everything, give up guitar and try something new !
    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

    I wasn't suggesting sweep picking per se, just that a slow sweep across the strings, like a slow strum, but co-ordinated with left hand finger movement.  (No speed demon stuff here)
    So really just stroking the pick from one string to the next, creating a sequence of individual notes.
    Hits each string, keeps the rhythm with the right hand, but keeps the picking about as simple as it can get so that you can concentrate on finger movements on the left hand.
    Are you with me so far?
    (It's also great picking technique with legato runs, so it may well be worth trying for that later on too)

    Note - this is not playing an arpeggio.  (not a proper one)  A bit jazzy maybe, but not very melodic, but good exercise I think.

    Left hand with finger tips (for instance) play / pick
    6th string - 3 fret - 1 st finger >
    5th string - 3 fret - 1 st finger >
    4th string - 3 fret - 1 st finger >
    3rd string - 3 fret - 1 st finger >
    2nd string- 3 fret - 1 st finger >
    1st string - 3 fret - 1 st finger >

    and then back the other way down to the 2>3>4>5>6**th string where you started

    then
    6th string - 4 fret - 2 nd finger >
    5th string - 4 fret - 2 nd finger >
    same as above on 4 fret 2nd finger across strings and back
    then
    6th string - 5 fret - 3 rd finger >
    5th string - 5 fret - 3 rd finger >
    same as above on 5 fret 3rd finger across strings and back
    then
    6th string - 6 fret - 4 th finger >
    5th string - 6 fret - 4 th finger >
    same as above on 6 fret 4th finger across strings and back

    then you can go back to 3rd finger, 2nd finger, 1st finger and start allover again,
    or try one of the variations I suggested in the other post (also below), which will be easier once you've got this sussed,
    or make up a few exercises of your own, to keep it interesting over the next few weeks.


    Run through this a few times for a couple of minutes, maybe two or three times in your session if there is time.
    See what you think.
    I hope that made more sense this time?   :)

    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
    (you could drop the **6th above and as you come back down and play the 6th string moving to the next finger, it keeps it to a smooth sweep that way, bit difficult to explain but easier to do)

    An alternative is to do 6th to 1st with one finger, then 1st to 6th with the next finger, and cycle through all the permutations.
    Or even string skip !   (ie 6th, 4, 2, 5, 3, 1 etc)
    Lots of open strings to control too.


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  • mike_lmike_l Frets: 5672

    @mike_l

    It's does seem that is the more natural way your fingers want to go and it works too without sounding both strings at the same time.

     

    I use the middle bit of the fretting part of my finger as a "pivot point" so I can pull back to go to the higher* string or push forward to fret the lower* string.

    *pitch

    Ringleader of the Cambridge cartel, pedal champ and king of the dirt boxes (down to 21) 

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  • CatthanCatthan Frets: 195
    I don't think it's smth worth worrying about unless you are struggling with a fast passage like a sweep arp or a fast pentatonic run ala Eric Johnson- Shawn Lane. For the first you will have to pivot in 2-3 strings or even 4 if you re doing Gambale style sweeps. for the latter it best of you change fingers instead of rolling-pivoting though at first it's counterintuitive why this is better.
    For the rolling-pivoting part an exercise like the slow strum-sweep suggested by @ChrisMusic would help.

    Atb,
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  • @ChrisMusic

    Thanks for taking the time for that. I know exactly what you mean know. I had a go tonight just with the index finger doing all down picks from 6th to 1st string on the same fret and then up picks form 1st to 6th string.

    I can see how it could work although the notes sound very "abrupt" for want of a better word. I'll keep having a go at this, like anything with me though, anything I have to put work into takes me a bit of time but I do generally see some improvement for it.

    Like @Mike_l ; explanation, when I roll I am using the last joint of the finger only to roll not a completely flat finger etc.

    I'm going to keep going with the Arpeggios anyway until they are ingrained in my head like the Major and Pent scale patterns and as they are all embedded in the scales anyway that should be a big help.

    @Catthan

    Thanks for the help. Those players you mentioned are real demon players. I can only dream ;-)

     

    Thanks guys.

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  • BarneyBarney Frets: 393
    the reason its a bad idea to bar is because the the notes will come out together as a 2 notes thats why they say about rolling....i think you can still bar the 2 strings but by a slight movement of arching and collapsing the finger joint you can stop both strings from sounding together....so you are rolling between the 2 strings iff that makes sense so each string is being played separately instead of together...of course the other way is to use 2 separate fingers  ...
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  • @Barney

    I'm with you on that, even though I don't play the Arps so fast yet, I can manage to not have the 2 notes ringing out at once I sort of manipulate the finger joint somewhat. Whether that will be the case as they get quicker I don't know.

    I'll keep having a go at Chris technique though.

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