Guitar finishes - opinions for discussion

ThePrettyDamned

More for interest than anything else, to be honest, as I've formed mine.

I was completely convinced the finish made no effect on the sound of the guitar whatsoever.  It just didn't make sense.  My LTD has a thick finish, but it's lively, resonant and sounds the ballz.  

Then I built a partscaster and Wudtone'd it.  

Acoustically, it's crazy loud.  It's a fairly heavy swamp ash body, but it's amazingly lively, and it really comes out through an amp, too.  It even feels nicer to the touch! I've since compared epi LP's to Gibson ones, and have reached the same conclusion - in general, the Gibson ones sound better, even when the epi has the long neck tenon.  

Poly can also be wiped on thin, and I have tried another home partscaster with a thin poly and it looked stunning and sounded great - again, acoustically, it was louder than a 'normal' telecaster.  And that's saying something... Poly finishes also lend themselves to that super posh 'mirrored' look, though I don't know how thick it needs to be for that...

So, what are your thoughts?  I'm completely open to all this being in my head - I don't mind at all it'll never put me off buying a thick poly guitar (again, the LTD is a corker) and my partscasters will always be wudtone because it's easy and looks amazing (and I'm sure it sounds better for it...).  But I'm just intrigued as to how others feel.

ddlooping

I believe that finish might make a difference unplugged.
I'm not convinced it makes an audible one when plugged unless it penetrates the wood to such an extent that it interferes with the "inner vibrations" of the body. B-) 

randomhandclaps

There's the Adam Jones propelled story that the silver sparkleburst Les Paul Custom sounds different to any other Les Paul due to the finish material.  Lot's of fanboys buy into it and it has sent people on crazy missions to find a sparkleburst finish because regardless of talent etc it will make you sound exactly like him.

In reality, and with so many variable in a guitar's design, I doubt many people have had a chance to do a side by side of exactly the same spec guitars with different finish.  I am open to the possibility, especially acoustically but plugged in I would put it quite low down the list of effective factors on sound.

ThePrettyDamned

My conclusion was, if the unplugged sound is different, the plugged in must also be different, as that means the strings are vibrating differently and that is what the pickup...er...picks up.   Like comparing two string brands, I suppose, though the difference between a thick poly guitar with new strings and a thin finish with 3 week old strings will be much more audible!

ddlooping

ThePrettyDamned said:

My conclusion was, if the unplugged sound is different, the plugged in must also be different, as that means the strings are vibrating differently and that is what the pickup...er...picks up.   Like comparing two string brands, I suppose, though the difference between a thick poly guitar with new strings and a thin finish with 3 week old strings will be much more audible!

But are the strings really vibrating differently?
Maybe their vibration is unchanged, or not sufficiently changed to be audible, but acoustically amplified differently. B-) 

JookyChap

The simple truth is that poly or nitro or whatever - red ones never sound as good

Iamnobody

Can't remember what forum I read these words of wisdom but it went something like this....as soon as the drummer starts playing it makes fuck all difference!

ThePrettyDamned

Iamnobody said:

Can't remember what forum I read these words of wisdom but it went something like this....as soon as the drummer starts playing it makes fuck all difference!

Haha, wisdomed! 

Like I said, I'm open minded.  I really didn't think it did make a difference, but now I do - in the same way the fretboard wood probably does make a small difference, somewhere, somehow.  You know, the whole, 'sum of it's parts' thing.  

Acoustically amplified differently... Yeah, that sounds like it makes sense! It'll be impossible to make a true a/b comparison sadly...

John_P

My tokai superstrat tester for tasteless finishes has had many different paints on it - I've definitely noticed a more muffled, lack of sparkle in the sound when it has had a thicker coat - the worst was when I tried my version of the fabric finish - I used way too much glue and it sounded very dull.   
Some of the effects I was hearing might be a reaction to the quality of my work or the way I'd put the neck/bridge back on but I'm convinced there was a difference and I make a point to try to use as little paint as possible now.

ICBM

Having stripped several guitars and refinished a few of them, I'm absolutely certain that the finish does make difference, including to the amplified sound through a distorted amp with the band playing. Maybe not *that* big, but surprisingly noticeable.

I'm less convinced that the *type* of finish has as much effect as its thickness or hardness though - particularly as most of the common finishes can vary quite widely in both, and some guitars which people think are one type of finish actually have an undercoat of another...

jd0272

Stick a shit guitar (regardless of finish, tho it would logically be shit) with crappy pickups in front of a quality pedal, thru a quality lead, into a quality valve amp, and TA DA!

Ah, beer o'clock.

jd0272

And aye, bastard drummers kill yer tone. Pigs.

randomhandclaps

The thing I notice most is it doesn't seem to matter what the hell you cover a guitar in, Billy Gibbons still seems to make 'em sound good.

ddlooping

randomhandclaps said:

The thing I notice most is it doesn't seem to matter what the hell you cover a guitar in, Billy Gibbons still seems to make 'em sound good.

According to his tech, all his guitar are eq'ed to sound like Pearly Gates.

WezV

ICBM said:

Having stripped several guitars and refinished a few of them, I'm absolutely certain that the finish does make difference, including to the amplified sound through a distorted amp with the band playing. Maybe not *that* big, but surprisingly noticeable.

I'm less convinced that the *type* of finish has as much effect as its thickness or hardness though - particularly as most of the common finishes can vary quite widely in both, and some guitars which people think are one type of finish actually have an undercoat of another...

yeah, for me it is down to thickness and hardness rather than type.  nitro is great because its easy to spray thin and actually gets thinner as it ages.  its also very brittle

randomhandclaps

ddlooping said:

randomhandclaps said:

The thing I notice most is it doesn't seem to matter what the hell you cover a guitar in, Billy Gibbons still seems to make 'em sound good.

According to his tech, all his guitar are eq'ed to sound like Pearly Gates.

A genuine thank you for that.  You know that was one of these pieces of information I found out a few years ago, it fascinated me, but then it totally slipped out of my head but is good to know.   

ddlooping

You're very welcome.

Andyjr1515

I'm also in the 'thickness and harness makes a difference but not the coating type itself' camp

mike_l

Iamnobody said:

Can't remember what forum I read these words of wisdom but it went something like this....as soon as the drummer starts playing it makes fuck all difference!

as you've had to turn up anyway.........

dindude

The best experience I've hadron this Is that I put together a la cabronita type Tele a while ago. First I stain and oiled it, then I sanded it right back and finished in thin coat of Nitro. 

Bearing in mind that some oil must have penetrated and remained even after stripping, but the acoustic sound changed quite dramatically. From a dull thud with the oil, to lively and vibrant with the Nitro.

Also, any practically unfinished guitar I've had, you know the type, very small amount of oil or thin satin coat, has sounded pretty horrible acoustically. 

I've come to conclusion that thin, hard coats are by far the best and I really done like oil based finishes.

ESBlonde

I have a 2006 Gibson ES335 with the thick nitro finish (with all the modern plasticisers), I have wrestled often with stripping it and refinishing in a thin traditional nitro coat. Over the last couple of years I have noticed that the finish feels harder than it once did and the sound might have opened up some. I currently conclude that it probably won't get stripped, but that may change in the future.

Whilst we can and do tinker with bridges, tailpiece/vibratos, pickups, machineheads, finishes etc. the playing setup makes a considerable difference to the way a guitar sounds and more importantly how it can be exploited.