Blackstar ID series amps... any good?

bignorm

I'm seriously thinking of buying a Blackstar ID 30 amp.
Like most guitarists, I've spent fortunes going back and forth on amps over the years, but have always gone back to marshall in the end.
Ive never gone for loads of pedals on the floor and to be honest dont really get on with them as I like my set ups simple.. guitar into a cooking valve amp. I'm pretty much old school when it comes to my guitar tone, I like using the guitar vol pot to clean up the signal to get chimey just on the edge of break up tones.

I have a great set up at the mo but its a royal PITA for rehearsal and small gigs.
I use a JMP1 pre amp into a Peavey Classic Power amp into a Zilla Fatboy 2x12 loaded with old celestion black back g12 30w.
There's an old Yamaha SPX 90 in the loop for delays and thats pretty much it.
It's a pretty immense sound that comes alive when you get to the sweet spot.
For the rock band its pretty much a guitar into the jmp1 set up and go .. perfect.
In the other band I stick a chorus pedal between the guitar and amp for a couple of songs.
I still have a great sound but it's much harder to get the sweet spot, coz im playing with the vol pot a lot more to get the  just on the edge break up sound that I love.

It's for that reason I dont like modelling amps, as it sounds artificial to me.
So in theory, I shoudnt like the blackstar but in the showroom it sounded great.
It responded to my (ahem) knob twiddling just like a valve amp, but I cant help thinking will I be wasting my money.
will it sound as good at gig volumes or will it just sound like mush?
Again as these things get better will modelling make lugging heavy amps around a thing of the past?
whats your thoughts?

monquixote

They certainly sound good from what I've heard and they are pretty loud. 

I haven't heard any reports from people gigging them yet, but I'd like to because if they live up to the hype it could be the answer to a lot of working musicians prayers. 

ICBM

Yes, they're very good - but I would get the ID60 not the 30 if you have any intention of gigging with it.

Just a much more flexible and capable amp - the extra power and controls that you don't get on the 30 make a big difference.

They still aren't quite as loud or dynamic as an equivalent valve amp - close, but not quite there yet. First-generation though, so maybe there's more to come.

EricTheWeary

They seem to be basically built to be sold to people playing in rock covers bands. So if that's the kind of thing you do why not? The effects are easy enough to use, not a tweaker's paradise but not much to go wrong either. I suspect you do need the 60 though, the 30 ( which is what I have played through) being a sort of practice amp with pretensions.    

monquixote

Thinking about this a bit more, if you want a big Marshally rock sound bundled with some FX in an easy to lug package how about an H&K Switchblade? 

They don't seem to go for too much secondhand, or if you were feeling flush you could go for a Grandmeister. 

bignorm

EricTheWeary said:

They seem to be basically built to be sold to people playing in rock covers bands. So if that's the kind of thing you do why not? The effects are easy enough to use, not a tweaker's paradise but not much to go wrong either. I suspect you do need the 60 though, the 30 ( which is what I have played through) being a sort of practice amp with pretensions.    

The reason i looked at the ID30 was its only for rehearsals and in the pop band where i mic up so there's no need for a lot of volume. The whole band uses IEM's too so there's no problem hearing whats going on.
TBH what started the whole thing off was i was looking into maybe a having a preamp set up going straight into the desk but i think thats not really viable at the mo unless i go down the AXE FX route. I went down the whole programable fx route a few years back but one gig with a guitar straight into an amp just made me realise what was missing.
Im reluctant to chuck a lot of cash at something on a whim so im keeping it strictly low budget so i can change my mind and not lose to much cash.
Monquiote ... I'll check out the switchblade coz i dont know owt about them.
Cheers

bignorm

I seem to have posted twice but cant delete the duplicate

ICBM

bignorm said:

The reason i looked at the ID30 was its only for rehearsals and in the pop band where i mic up so there's no need for a lot of volume. The whole band uses IEM's too so there's no problem hearing whats going on.

It's not just about volume - the 60 is just a better amp. In particular it has the resonance and presence controls which the 30 lacks - when I tried the 60 at band volume these were the most useful controls on the amp, and more effective than the normal EQ.

Grumpyrocker

The 60 has an effects loop too.

Pyroman

ICBM said:

bignorm said:

The reason i looked at the ID30 was its only for rehearsals and in the pop band where i mic up so there's no need for a lot of volume. The whole band uses IEM's too so there's no problem hearing whats going on.

It's not just about volume - the 60 is just a better amp. In particular it has the resonance and presence controls which the 30 lacks - when I tried the 60 at band volume these were the most useful controls on the amp, and more effective than the normal EQ.

   You beat me to it!   It's more like the jump from a Mustang II to an MIII than simply an upsize.  The extra wattage is only one of the improvements- the  greater functionality is the real draw.

  If, as Grumpy noted, it also has an fx loop, then Blackstar does indeed listen to it's customers.

ICBM

Pyroman said:

  If, as Grumpy noted, it also has an fx loop, then Blackstar does indeed listen to it's customers.

Not quite - they did it with a software change which you can download, reconfiguring two of the existing jacks... you lose the line input and the emulated output since those become the FX loop. (The loss of the emulated out in particular is a big downside, to me.) Hopefully there will be a MkII with extra physical jacks eventually.

bignorm

Hmmm
Went to Project Music in exeter and tried out the ID60.. It sounded great in the shop so i bought it and later on took it to the rehearsal room for a blast at gig volume.
What sounded great in the shop, sounded horrible in the rehearsal space. The room is pretty neutral so i know what sounds good and not in it.
I spent most of the night trying to coax a basic live amp sound and failed miserably.
It either sound dull and lifeless or bright and shrill.
Tweaking the sound to make the power chords fat made the single notes overly fuzzy.
Turn down the gain to clean up the single notes and the chords were thin and lifeless.. ... arghh
but the biggest complaint that made me pack it back in the box and return it for a refund was the input had some noise gate on it that just plainly sounded horrible.
I spent far too many years playing large valve amps turned up pretty loud and using the guitar vol pot to temper the tone and how much gain is used etc. its part of my playing style that i cant explain easily
But this is totally wrong for the blackstar were you're supposed to have the guitar pot on 10 and use the amp settings to shape the tone, this is alien to me so back it goes.
Next thing to try is a small valve head for rehearsal nights or just grin and bare it when it comes to lumping my guitar rig out of the car for rehearsing.

 

fretmeister

Mmm. That's a shame.

I've been looking for a reasonable price amp as it seems I might end up in a band as a guitarist again.

I wonder if you got a duff one?

bignorm

Its not duff its just not what im looking for...
I cant relearn my guitar playing style and like i said if i use my technique of riding the guitar vol pot, I fall foul of the bleddy stupid input noise gate thats permanently on  X(
Back to the drawing board.
Im thinking of trying to make my existing rig a bit more portable maybe get a couple of 1x12 zilla cabs and see if i can get a smaller valve power amp or go to the dark side and try a matrix tranny power amp

Lev

bignorm said:

 I fall foul of the bleddy stupid input noise gate thats permanently on

That's ridiculous if that can't be turned off some how. I'd say the majority of guitarists use their volume to manage their gain, especially at gig levels. As an aside your story sounds very like the experience I had with a Blackstar HT40, it sounded wonderful in isolation but could never get a satisfactory tone in a band mix.

ThePrettyDamned

Interesting, I found it pretty responsive to pick attack and volume pot riding. I tend to control gain more through picking and gentle/hard hammer ons than volume pot (which always seemed more of a hassle than just picking soft) and I didn't find the id lacking, though it's a bit different to a valve amp.

guitarfishbay

Lev said:

bignorm said:

 I fall foul of the bleddy stupid input noise gate thats permanently on

That's ridiculous if that can't be turned off some how. I'd say the majority of guitarists use their volume to manage their gain, especially at gig levels. As an aside your story sounds very like the experience I had with a Blackstar HT40, it sounded wonderful in isolation but could never get a satisfactory tone in a band mix.

I googled this, because it sounded a bad design move if you couldn't switch it off.

It turns out it is a bad design move because it doesn't look like you can change the noise gate from the amp (at this time of writing) but if you hook it up to the insider software you can change it there.

Referenced from here http://www.blackstaramps.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3150

ICBM

bignorm said:

Went to Project Music in exeter and tried out the ID60.. It sounded great in the shop so i bought it and later on took it to the rehearsal room for a blast at gig volume.
What sounded great in the shop, sounded horrible in the rehearsal space. The room is pretty neutral so i know what sounds good and not in it.
I spent most of the night trying to coax a basic live amp sound and failed miserably.
It either sound dull and lifeless or bright and shrill.
Tweaking the sound to make the power chords fat made the single notes overly fuzzy.
Turn down the gain to clean up the single notes and the chords were thin and lifeless..
 

Out of interest, was that the ID60 combo or the head?

I tried the head and it sounded pretty good through speakers which were probably reasonably similar to the ones Blackstar have designed it to use - which I would normally consider "crap" - and *dreadful* through what I would normally consider "decent" speakers, or at least reasonable ones (G12T-75s)… and in exactly the way you describe - shrill, fuzzy, thin and just plain nasty.

But through a "crappy" Valvestate cabinet it actually sounded pretty good. This was at rehearsal volume in a practice room too, although not with the band there.

If it was the combo… I'm not sure what was different! Room acoustics and relative mix levels, presumably.

guitarfishbay

I think the cab has a lot to play with this too.  The Zilla fatboy cab you're used to is a big closed back 2x12 (unless you ordered a different back) swapping from one of those to a small 1x12 combo is a big difference.  

frictionfraction

I have got an Id:60 1x12 which I gig on occasions for either smaller gigs, gigs where space is limited or gigs where I just can't be arsed to load up heads, cabs, leads pedals etc.. My other rig consists of a Cornford mk50 mk2 or a hellcat head... Ok... Here we go It won't sound like the Cornfords to state the bleeding obvious but the compromise of sounds flexibility reliability portability and price makes it a good buy. I have had some really good comments on the sounds I'm getting and in a band environment it holds it's own, has a decent middle eq and is loud enough to stand out over a drummer and bass player going for it in a solo section. Yes it is more rock orientated but I do dome theatre work for which it is ideal. I used it at home for practice but then picked up an id:15 on gumtree which is just a smaller box for a small room. If I could only have the mk50 or the id no contest - mk50 but if I had a budget of 400 quid for one amp to fulfil lots of uses then the id is in my opinion the best bang for your bucks you can get for a decent sounding fully loaded sounds box. Ps it also blows out of the water all the line6, vypers, valvetronix alternatives

bignorm

It was a 1x12 combo, but to be honest the big no no for me was the stupid noise gate.
I didnt expect the ID60 to be comparable to my valve rig, i just didnt expect to struggle so much to coax a usable sound out of it.
I didnt have it long enough to install the software on my pc it went back the next morning.

Im probably going to stay with my guitar rig as i know it so well and it sounds so fat, perhaps get a EH Magnum 44 or Caliber 22 for rehearsal nights.
The zilla plays a huge part in my guitar rig sound, so its worth trying the magnum to see if it's up to the job.
I could always return it if it sounds pants