Ultimate pickup switching ?

ChrisMusic

The search for ultimate pickup switching continues.

As the issue of switching and volume, tone, blend controls with eventually surface as I get to grip with my fledgeling projects, I thought I had better come clean.

Way, way back, in my previous life, I rebuilt a Dan Armstrong sliding pickup guitar, put proper pickup routes and control cavity into it, fitted DiMarzio Super Distortion pickups, and switching that would achieve every possible combination of coils, series, parellel, phased etc.  That is some of the drive now, to re-explore and refine my options, with different pickup types and configurations thrown into the mix.

That guitar has long gone to a new home, and to be honest the pickup switching on two multi pole rotaries and numerous three way mini toggles was virtually unusable.  You needed a pilots license just to navigate the settings.  And a brain the size of a planet to remember which combination worked for what.

Here is a   >LINK<   to a picture of the sort of hi-techy switching that I just love for some strange reason. (5th down, 2nd & 3rd in)  I had one of those guitars too, not that specific model though, still have it in fact.  MIJ Matsumoku made Aria Pro II Urchin U Deluxe.  It doesn't have quite as many switches but is set up to drive an ARP Avatar guitar synthesiser, cool.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

The new Ernie Ball Music Man Game Changer   >>LINK<<   gives a pretty good idea of what I am working towards.  Great system, and that is "so me".

Not so sure I like the Reflex guitar so much, though I do like Music Man, and Henry Ford's idea of "any colour as long as its black" is just a bit last century.

I can do a lot of experiments for a lot less money, have different pickup signature sounds, and have a guitar (or two) that is personal to me.

Anyway take a look at it and see what you think of the sonic opportunities it opens up.

Here is a video of Jamie Humphries demoing it

And from EBMM themselves, with Steve Morse, et al.   (further info is on their site link above if you want to explore this more)

What do y'all think of this, or of the options for simpler switching systems?

All opinions welcome, cheers, Chris.

OilCityPickups

I think Live: too many options is a seriously bad thing.
Studio/bedroom ... knock yourself out ... nobody will hear the f--k up as you hit three switches together and totally lose your 'sound'.
Three sounds is plenty live ... my experience anyway. I actually prefer an Esquire or Junior where you are forced to use your hands amp and skill to vary the sound ... and you can be as drunk or stoned as you like without screwing the switching up (at least).

meltedbuzzbox

I can hardly tell a difference between half of the "versatile" options

Its like this for the marauder

http://www.iguitarmag.com/news/2012/08/add-76-pickup-tones-to-your-fender-modern-player-marauder/

I dont get it. 2 pickups (neck and bridge) single or humbucker. Its all you really need.

ICBM

http://www.futureguitarnow.com/forum/index.php?topic=1526.15

It's hard to find any information about this now because it appears EBMM have been successful in suing PMT - old forum stuff like this is about the only thing left. I remember the whole thing when it was in progress though, and PMT seem to be able to prove that they did develop the system. Presumably they just didn't have the money to win in court against the big boys.

EBMM also appear to have sued Earvana about compensated nuts and won too - again, apparently in contradiction to the evidence.

I have to say this sort of thing has left me with a very bad taste in my mouth about EBMM in general and I won't be buying anything of theirs on principle.

mike_l

Having options is great. As @TheGuitarWeasel said too many can be a nightmare.

My Charvel has 2 'buckers a 3-way toggle and a single volume pot.

My ESP has 2 'buckers, a 3 way toggle, switches for coil splits, 2 volume and a tone pot.

Generally I'll take the Charvel to a jam, for simplicity.

ChrisMusic

Thank you so much ICBM, for posting both your comments and the link.  I've been away from the music business for a long time and I knew nothing of this.  Just goes to show human nature doesn't improve with age (or experience).  Nasty and unethical business hardball. You are right, it does leave a pretty bad taste.

ChrisMusic

TheGuitarWeasel said:  ... and you can be as drunk or stoned as you like without screwing the switching up (at least).

Not so sure, I have very vague recollections of a few gigs which got out of hand in a very 1970s way, not that I am admitting to anything.

Happy daze days  

ChrisMusic

@meltedbuzzbox said:   I can hardly tell a difference between half of the "versatile" options

I think it's more a matter of exploration and nailing those "signature tones" that you like or go well with the music you are making at the time.  And, yes, most of those tones will inevitably be subtle variations on a theme.

Then simplifying your choices, as both @mike_l and TheGuitarWeasel said, too many options live becomes impossible to control.

However if that were to tie in to a fully (midi) switchable rig then your tone would link directly into any patch change, now that would open up the fiddle factor just as it does for Axe FX users or any other complex multi effects system, but would allow pickup switching relevant to the song to be almost transparently available, like any other effect or amp selection.

Maybe I just spent too much time in studios in my "past life".

You can take a bit to get the sound right, but when the clock is ticking, whether you are ultimately paying the bill, or it's a paid session, you needed to get it nailed pretty quickly.  I guess most recording is done to a different economic model now, with musician's studios and file sharing.  I am looking forward to getting up to speed with all that.

Flexibility to get a variety of tones with a couple of guitars has always been close to my heart.

I do agree that for live, keep it simple really is the best way to go.  Saves nervous breakdowns for you or your tech.

(but then my idea of simple is not always simple

Dave_Mc

ICBM said:

http://www.futureguitarnow.com/forum/index.php?topic=1526.15

It's hard to find any information about this now because it appears EBMM have been successful in suing PMT - old forum stuff like this is about the only thing left. I remember the whole thing when it was in progress though, and PMT seem to be able to prove that they did develop the system. Presumably they just didn't have the money to win in court against the big boys.

EBMM also appear to have sued Earvana about compensated nuts and won too - again, apparently in contradiction to the evidence.

I have to say this sort of thing has left me with a very bad taste in my mouth about EBMM in general and I won't be buying anything of theirs on principle.

If that's true, that's messed up.

blueskunk

Baja style is the best without it being too tricky etc.

bertie

there's a lot to be said for  "just plug it in and play the fucking thing"

OilCityPickups

bertie said:

there's a lot to be said for  "just plug it in and play the fucking thing"

Very true ...

Andyjr1515

I'm probably in the median of all the views expressed above   One of the wiring options I did a while ago was a personal job for one of the former professional demonstrators of Vigier.  He wanted me to wire up a Strat a la Tyler Studio Elite.  I think there are 125 combinations...

...interestingly, he only uses 3 of them.  However, after playing for a day and a half (almost non-stop), he found the three tones he was looking for.  So, I suppose he can now 'just plug it in and play the f*****g thing' but knowing that the 'f*****g thing' will sound just like he thinks it ought to. 

Not sure if that moves the discussion on or not....

johnnyurq

Dave_Mc said:

ICBM said:

http://www.futureguitarnow.com/forum/index.php?topic=1526.15

It's hard to find any information about this now because it appears EBMM have been successful in suing PMT - old forum stuff like this is about the only thing left. I remember the whole thing when it was in progress though, and PMT seem to be able to prove that they did develop the system. Presumably they just didn't have the money to win in court against the big boys.

EBMM also appear to have sued Earvana about compensated nuts and won too - again, apparently in contradiction to the evidence.

I have to say this sort of thing has left me with a very bad taste in my mouth about EBMM in general and I won't be buying anything of theirs on principle.

If that's true, that's messed up.

The Future Guitar Site was setup for us Dark Fire users to pool knowledge when the big G and HJ were being cvnts and we extended it to all tech guitar/music related chat.

I remember this at the time and yes EBMM were caught bang to rights, sadly some of the links showing this are now dead as a result of EBMM's litigation.

They have form apparently too, not quite as bad as Gibson/HJ so pretty disappointing. 

IP and copyright trolling is getting out of hand (yes I am looking at you Apple and other tech companies too).

Buying smaller companies up then asset strip, dump it and use the IP/copyright retrospectively, nice eh.

Besides the demos of this tech at the time were very underwhelming with only very subtle tonal differences at best and no change at all for some, add flaky software (might be better now though) and it is a no from me.

Like @ICBM I do not buy from EBMM and Gibson for new gear on principle, 2nd hand is fine they don't get my dough.

axisus

I've gone minimalist now on switching - 2HBs with 3 way switch, but I used to be into the idea of as much as possible. I built this guitar a few years ago, but haven't played it in a long time now, infact I need to print this pic to remind me of what does what! 

OilCityPickups

Jeez, sniff half a larger and you'd be lost with that baby

mike_l

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=BC+Rich+Bich&Form=IQFRDR#view=detail&id=FD1D9590B950713555C12AEAAA42878CA539EE28&selectedIndex=0

 

 

probably every possible switching arrangement.......

Dave_Mc

johnnyurq said:

Dave_Mc said:

ICBM said:

http://www.futureguitarnow.com/forum/index.php?topic=1526.15

It's hard to find any information about this now because it appears EBMM have been successful in suing PMT - old forum stuff like this is about the only thing left. I remember the whole thing when it was in progress though, and PMT seem to be able to prove that they did develop the system. Presumably they just didn't have the money to win in court against the big boys.

EBMM also appear to have sued Earvana about compensated nuts and won too - again, apparently in contradiction to the evidence.

I have to say this sort of thing has left me with a very bad taste in my mouth about EBMM in general and I won't be buying anything of theirs on principle.

If that's true, that's messed up.

The Future Guitar Site was setup for us Dark Fire users to pool knowledge when the big G and HJ were being cvnts and we extended it to all tech guitar/music related chat.

I remember this at the time and yes EBMM were caught bang to rights, sadly some of the links showing this are now dead as a result of EBMM's litigation.

They have form apparently too, not quite as bad as Gibson/HJ so pretty disappointing. 

IP and copyright trolling is getting out of hand (yes I am looking at you Apple and other tech companies too).

Buying smaller companies up then asset strip, dump it and use the IP/copyright retrospectively, nice eh.

Besides the demos of this tech at the time were very underwhelming with only very subtle tonal differences at best and no change at all for some, add flaky software (might be better now though) and it is a no from me.

Like @ICBM I do not buy from EBMM and Gibson for new gear on principle, 2nd hand is fine they don't get my dough.

Thanks for the info.

I'm probably being dim here, but who's HJ? ) Oh, just came to me (maybe), do you mean the CEO of Gibson, Henry Juszkiewicz?

Roland

axisus said:

I've gone minimalist now on switching - 2HBs with 3 way switch ...

I'm all for simplicity in live use, but I also like a bit of variety.  In a guitar I look for two humbuckers with a 3 way switch, and a tap switch.  Piezos are a useful extra for acoustic simulation.

Over the years I've tried other switching systems, three pickups, parallel coils, progressive tapping ... but none of them have added a sonic difference which I deem worth the effort or complexity.

johnnyurq

.

Dave_Mc said:

johnnyurq said:

Dave_Mc said:

ICBM said:

http://www.futureguitarnow.com/forum/index.php?topic=1526.15

It's hard to find any information about this now because it appears EBMM have been successful in suing PMT - old forum stuff like this is about the only thing left. I remember the whole thing when it was in progress though, and PMT seem to be able to prove that they did develop the system. Presumably they just didn't have the money to win in court against the big boys.

EBMM also appear to have sued Earvana about compensated nuts and won too - again, apparently in contradiction to the evidence.

I have to say this sort of thing has left me with a very bad taste in my mouth about EBMM in general and I won't be buying anything of theirs on principle.

If that's true, that's messed up.

The Future Guitar Site was setup for us Dark Fire users to pool knowledge when the big G and HJ were being cvnts and we extended it to all tech guitar/music related chat.

I remember this at the time and yes EBMM were caught bang to rights, sadly some of the links showing this are now dead as a result of EBMM's litigation.

They have form apparently too, not quite as bad as Gibson/HJ so pretty disappointing. 

IP and copyright trolling is getting out of hand (yes I am looking at you Apple and other tech companies too).

Buying smaller companies up then asset strip, dump it and use the IP/copyright retrospectively, nice eh.

Besides the demos of this tech at the time were very underwhelming with only very subtle tonal differences at best and no change at all for some, add flaky software (might be better now though) and it is a no from me.

Like @ICBM I do not buy from EBMM and Gibson for new gear on principle, 2nd hand is fine they don't get my dough.

Thanks for the info.

I'm probably being dim here, but who's HJ? ) Oh, just came to me (maybe), do you mean the CEO of Gibson, Henry Juszkiewicz?

Sorry @Dave_Mc that is the very badger.

Check out glassdoor.com under Gibson to see what a swivel eyed loon HJ really is. He seems to be a weapons grade sociopath, paranoid and micro manages to the nth degree. 

He buys, strips and dumps companies and uses any useful IP or copyright to make a fast and dishonest buck. Don't mention the wood either as him and CITES are warring with each other.

Executives last barely months with one quitting after a week. Gibson will be in the shitter until he is deposed.

The main dude that started off future guitar now was offered a job (ex NASA JPL) as he knew how to sort the tech issues with the Dark Fire. After spending a few days helping on the DF project he ran away screaming having dodged a bullet.

HJ had him made persona non grata on every Gibson and affiliated website, what a tool.

HJ set up a forum for users to get his ear directly and I asked a perfectly reasonable question re a Dark Fire issue and I got banned too.

Hence me saying I don't buy any new Gibson gear new.

Dave_Mc

Thanks. Yeah I think I've heard of that glassdoor thing about Gibson before, isn't that where they have employee reviews of what companies are like to work for? )