The Rugby Union Thread

tbm

lloyd said:

Ireland should put those away. 

Strong bench from France from what I've seen elsewhere.

I dunno. No Earls or Zebo means we no jinkers in the backline, just hard runners. Expect more kicking then last week. Trimble generally plays well against France, and he needs to have a big one on Saturday. It's always tight against France, this will be no different. Another draw would not surprise me.

lloyd

tbm said:

lloyd said:

Ireland should put those away. 

Strong bench from France from what I've seen elsewhere.

I dunno. No Earls or Zebo means we no jinkers in the backline, just hard runners. Expect more kicking then last week. Trimble generally plays well against France, and he needs to have a big one on Saturday. It's always tight against France, this will be no different. Another draw would not surprise me.

Not saying it'll be a big win but I can't see past you for the victory. The players will be buzzing after the result last week-largely written off by the press and will feel that they could/should have won it. 

You won't give any easy ones up to France and they don't look like they've got too many ideas-Italy nearly beat them, probably should have.

crunchman

Only two backs on the bench for England.  That's a bit risky for me.

Does he see Itoje as a second row or back row?  He's got both him and Launchberry on the bench.  Interesting that Clifford is still not getting a start.

scrumhalf

Launch started for us in the back row many moons ago.

Still narked that Daly hasn't got a spot on the bench. Jones said he would play at some point during the 6N, surely Italy is easier as a debut game.

koneguitarist

I think every record has to fall sometime, Scotland has not won in Cardiff since 2002, and England have never lost to Italy, yet.

Wales worry me, as an attacking force we are crap, and have been ever since Howley took over. 

It's noticeable that for every backs player starting for Wales with a good rep, the longer they play the worse they get. 

All this talk about France club rugby not improving players is crap, Stephen Jones and Gareth Thomas both got better over there. It's what's happening to them in a Welsh jersey that's most worrying. 

When was the last time North or any of the backs scored a well constructed try? Since Howley has been in charge it's all been individual moments, like Shane Williams. Look at North when he first played for Wales he was offloading and cutting better angles. Now the players are passing the ball to each other, not in front of the player to hit with pace, but quite often stopping the player dead, or not drawing the opposite number before passing. Simple skills that since guys like Shanklin and Henson has gone has eluded this crop of players. 

tbm

lloyd said:

Not saying it'll be a big win but I can't see past you for the victory. The players will be buzzing after the result last week-largely written off by the press and will feel that they could/should have won it. 

I fear for our scrum. Nathan White isn't the anchor that Mike Ross is.

koneguitarist said:

I think every record has to fall sometime, Scotland has not won in Cardiff since 2002, and England have never lost to Italy, yet.

Wales worry me, as an attacking force we are crap, and have been ever since Howley took over. 

It's noticeable that for every backs player starting for Wales with a good rep, the longer they play the worse they get.

I think you're right. If you look at last week, an organized defense was enough to keep Wales out. They kinda ran out of ideas. BUT this is Scotland. As night follows day I think they'll disappoint, and they've the coach to make sure of it. In a season where Glasgow played a blistering brand of rugby to win the Pro12 with a rake of Scottish players, they got tonked in the 6Ns, and huffed pasted a knackered Japan in the WC. Wales will win if they stop Stuart Hogg basically. Outside of maintaining a high standard at Clermont, Cotter didn't actually win that much. I remain unconvinced by him.

lloyd

koneguitarist;969186" said:

I think every record has to fall sometime, Scotland has not won in Cardiff since 2002, and England have never lost to Italy, yet. Wales worry me, as an attacking force we are crap, and have been ever since Howley took over. It's noticeable that for every backs player starting for Wales with a good rep, the longer they play the worse they get. All this talk about France club rugby not improving players is crap, Stephen Jones and Gareth Thomas both got better over there. It's what's happening to them in a Welsh jersey that's most worrying. When was the last time North or any of the backs scored a well constructed try? Since Howley has been in charge it's all been individual moments, like Shane Williams. Look at North when he first played for Wales he was offloading and cutting better angles. Now the players are passing the ball to each other, not in front of the player to hit with pace, but quite often stopping the player dead, or not drawing the opposite number before passing. Simple skills that since guys like Shanklin and Henson has gone has eluded this crop of players. 

To be fair Stephen Jones and Gareth Thomas playing in France is a whole generation ago-the game has changed, a lot.

It's widely accepted that the French league doesn't have the fitness levels of the others. They play an attritional game with big guys up front and have success in part due to their benches and in part because they have the best players.

It can't be coincidence that the French team has been in decline for the last 10 years while the big money and overseas stars have come in at around that time too.

It's a shame in a way that we don't get to see how the SH players perform after leaving the S15's as it may well be telling. There will of course be exceptions to the rule as you pointed out but there's not very many players that go their and enhance their international careers. Which is down a lot I know as they go there for pay days and most get less or zero international rugby.

Anyway....I agree we are a stale team in attack, it has to come down to more than just Howley though, Gatland is the min man so he must take some of the blame, the skills needed to offload and pick angles shouldn't need to be coached in the international set up-they should be there.

The issue is that Gatland doesn't trust these players to take risks-preferring possession to the risk of losing the ball. North and others failed to back themselves on Sunday to throw offloads in wide channels. Not sure if he doesn't trust them because they're not good enough or they are only allowed to do it when it's safe? I'm not sure of the answer, bloody frustrating as a fan though.

Read an interesting stat the other day-NZ made 2 more offloads than Wales in their last 6(?) games with 26 France had something like 40 so what's needed is intelligent offloads at pace.

Our gameplan involves runners on shoulders focusing on hitting the ruck of the tackled player to secure possession rather than looking for the pass-this means they are closer and flatter than they should for an offload.

What if like to know is do Howley and Gatland leave it up to the players to make on field decisions or is it weighted towards following a rigid gameplan?

It is becoming tedious to watch though and personally I think the backline is being wasted.

lloyd

Irish started well. No points as yet.

lloyd

Hands like tits from Ireland and France so far.

eSully

Ireland good value for their 6 point lead. Should be more really.

lloyd

France are horrendous, zero cohesion, can't pass more than 3 times without dropping it and kicking game is horrendous. Irish injuries might be affecting their momentum? Unless France improve vastly Ireland should pull away pretty comfortably.

eSully

Tod is a great 7 and McFadden for Kearney is like for like really, Neither have any great pace but hard workers. I don't see a tournament winner on show in this game so far

eSully

France are worse than I expected. Drop kicks at 34 minutes when you have momentum. Missed penalties. They're bound to have a good period at some point in the game so hopefully Ireland can keep a nice distance. Not the best game ever is it

lloyd

France improved a bit towards the end but pretty turgid stuff (again) hopefully both teams will start executing basic skills in the second half.

eSully

I think you're hoping for a bit much there, the conditions are getting worse. If you had a bet on first try scorer just chuck it now

snakemanStoo

Kyran Braken on twitter "The best moment of the first half was the referees whistle at 40 minutes"

lloyd

More of the same, you'd think they'd never played in rain before. Refs being generous with some of the forward pass/knock ons....think he feels sorry for the crowd.

lloyd

Jesus let a massive one for Ireland go then pulls up the France one.

lloyd

Decent few phases from France. Could be another injury here for Ireland?

eSully

McCarthy is out of the game. no way he'd pass concussion protocol now anyway. France playing a lot better now