Amaj7 to B - which scales would you use?

thomasross20

What if you saw those two chords in the heat of the moment and didn't have time to work anything out prior? 

bingefeller

thomasross20 said:

What if you saw those two chords in the heat of the moment and didn't have time to work anything out prior? 

I would play arpeggios and patterns such as 1 - 2 - 3 - 5.  You can be sure the Root, 2nd, 3rd, 5th and 6th are all going to be safe notes over both chords.

octatonic

thomasross20 said:

What if you saw those two chords in the heat of the moment and didn't have time to work anything out prior? 

If you haven't sat down over a period of years and worked on this stuff then you tend to panic.

A IV V7 is a VERY common chord progression-it is a central part of the blues, it is in pop music, rock music- everywhere.

What can work for novices is coming up with a line that works over the IV chord and then repeating that a tone up over the V chord, finishing with a dominant arpeggio back to a I.

If you take a V chord (in this key B7 or B D# F# A) and then look at the I chord of E maj7 (E G# B D) you have the root note of the V chord being the 5th of the I chord.

So escaping a V to I I might outline the core notes of the B7, perhaps extending them beyond a B7 to something like a B13.

B13 is B D# F# A C# E# G#.

(Ignore the E# for a second- 11th's aren't often used in 13th chords, they can make it sound very suspended and wrong).

If you look at that B13 you can se a few notes from the Emaj7- the G#, (3rd)  D# (maj7) and the B 5th (basically a rootless Emaj7)

So... in an extended V7 chord some of the notes are actually a route back to a I.

In this example I might not use the V as a V7 chord though, but I might do a tonic substitution on the Amaj7 chord, as I suggested above- using the Amaj7 as a I of a ii V I.

On the V (in this example E7) the same principle applies- an E13 in the ii V I and you get a route back to the A maj7.

If you do it enough it becomes second nature- you aren't analysing in the moment- you've done all that before- you end up playing a line and you know melodically how that line works because you've done it over and over and over.

Barney

thomasross20;823142" said:

What if you saw those two chords in the heat of the moment and didn't have time to work anything out prior? 

i wouldnt think of anything ....just trying to think of a melody that fits...you could play any modes of the Emaj scale over this but that just gives start and end points and limitations.....its amazing how many melodies you can think about with them notes...

thomasross20

Just to note... I know what a I IV V is (still, I appreciate explanations - good to get that sort of thing down in text) 

I've read a lot of the main theoretical books (AB Guide to Music Theory, mail order courses, the whole Jazz Theory Handbook, online stuff) - but I still find that the "heat of the moment" situations can trip me up. More practice required - less technical, more theoretical!

Roland

When you haven't got time to think you need to hear and feel it. There's no substitute for practice and experience.

Jalapeno

Needs a resolution, but the Soundcloud is good stuff

thomasross20

Roland said:

When you haven't got time to think you need to hear and feel it. There's no substitute for practice and experience.

Agree!

Evo

My advice is to consider things this way:

Your major modes are Ionian, Lydian and Mixolydian. By having two major chords a tone apart, you're putting your true key as E major (A and B being chords IV and V respectively).

With that logic, you can justify trying E ionian, E lydian and E mixolydian. 

Ionian is the most "correct" sounding scale to choose but the other two will offer you different flavours too so why not give them a try. Mix and match it up!

thomasross20

Lukather does that a lot - treats each chord separately so might play a different mode over each... or several different modes over one chord 

frankus

Evo said:

My advice is to consider things this way:

Your major modes are Ionian, Lydian and Mixolydian. By having two major chords a tone apart, you're putting your true key as E major (A and B being chords IV and V respectively).

With that logic, you can justify trying E ionian, E lydian and E mixolydian. 

Ionian is the most "correct" sounding scale to choose but the other two will offer you different flavours too so why not give them a try. Mix and match it up!

by the time you've thought all that you're already at the chorus

thomasross20

Hahaha that's what I'm always getting at @frankus when I mention the "heat of the moment"

GuyBoden

viz said:

Two major chords a tone apart are very often IV and V, especially as the A is an A major7, consistent with Lydian. But it could also the VI and VII of C# minor (still lydian and mixo, like all along the watchtower), ie, playing c# aeolian works throughout the sequence

Yeah I agree, this is good old fashioned bVII-bVI-i Natural Minor (Aeolian) Harmony as used in many Rock/pop songs since the early 1970's, Watch tower, Layla, Sultan's of Swing etc. The mood has little/no tension/release, so the Penatonic, Blues and Aeolian scales sound great for melody and solos. This Natural Minor (Aeolian) Harmony avoids using the Dom7th and sometimes uses a minor v, so creates little or no tension/release.

Analysing these simple progression using Functional Classical music Harmony theory with it's rules governing cadences and tension/release etc are the wrong tools for the job IMHO.

Thinking about using a different scale for each chord is over complicating such a simple progression (IMHO).

Good fun
Guy

Jalapeno

thomasross20 said:

Lukather does that a lot - treats each chord separately so might play a different mode over each... or several different modes over one chord 

I'll bet he doesn't and he uses his ear to determine what he plays ....

thomasross20

Actually he has an earpiece and I tell him what to play lol

GuyBoden

Playing the "Correct" scale over the "Correct" chord is very old hat. 

thomasross20

How did you get that picture of me? 

stickyfiddle

Without wanting to sound harsh, think of a melody, and play that. No-one cares what scale it is unless it's an interesting melody.

imalrightjack

stickyfiddle said:

Without wanting to sound harsh, think of a melody, and play that. No-one cares what scale it is unless it's an interesting melody.

You don't sound harsh.  Although you do sound a bit patronising and superior

Brad

Pool all the notes of an Amaj7 chord and a B major triad and that will give you your answer...