There's nothing quite like the realisation...

Cirrus

... that all the songs you've written in the last six months are probably rubbish.

Ah, art. How I hate ye.

HollowAxis

Should probably ask other people if it's actually rubbish before you dismiss it.

You can never trust yourself on your own art.

You're too close.

You've just heard them all way too much.

Cirrus

Probably. And thanks for replying @HollowAxis. These last couple of weeks I've not had much connection with anyone on here when I post.

I've basically written an album about the refugee crisis - looking at the xenophobia and racism that transpires when outsiders flood into people's home countries, the madness of people like Assad and ISIS, what it must feel like to lose friends, loved ones, your very home etc... so it's quite a big topic and I want to do it justice.

HollowAxis

I have the same problems with my own stuff.
I spend too much time, I get too involved, I end up writing a lot and scrapping most of it.

I think really if you showed other people a lot of your 'rubbish' ideas, some would actually be great ideas.

When you work alone this must always be the way it goes?
In a band or collective someone else will tell you to take a thread and run with it, a thread you might've left.

Is your stuff anywhere I could hear it?
Private soundcloud link?
I like projects with a solid idea behind them, you've picked a huge topic.

joeyowen

ha, you can't win them all

Just make the next 6 months better

Shark_Eyes

I'm just going to echo what @HollowAxis said, sometimes you need someone who isn't close to it to provide some feedback. 

I'm also always slightly more receptive to the music I've written if I take a few days break from it, then return.

Cirrus

Thanks chaps. @HollowAxis, I've put up three tracks as private soundcloud uploads, thanks very much for offering to listen! No pressure or expectation that you'll listen to them all, I just couldn't pick one song. ) They're reasonably rough demos - midi drums, DI bass/guitar, single vocal takes...

HollowAxis

|I shall listen when I get home tonight!

Snap

Cirrus said:

... that all the songs you've written in the last six months are probably rubbish.

Ah, art. How I hate ye.

with you there brother!

I go through phases where I am convinced I am wasting my time and money trying to record anything. Many times I will get about a minute of something recorded and totally run out of steam with it. I also have whole instrumental tracks done, for which I cannot get vocals right, and then have the opposite.

Then I do something I think is pretty good, only to come back to it a few weeks later and hear every single mistake and critique it to bits.

And then I have moments like now where I realise, fk it, its not all bad.

My biggest enemey is time and focus, neither of which I have in large amounts.

RIght now, I am getting massively frustrated cos my piano playing is not as good as it was, and I cannot for the life of me get this piece I am working on the way I want it. To the point where I nearly deleted the whole lot last night. Thankfully I didn't, cos today, it doesn't sound that bad!

 I'll listen to your stuff too

Not enough discussion around on our own efforts IMO

Cirrus

Snap said:

with you there brother!

Not enough discussion around on our own efforts IMO

I think it's almost a cultural thing within the guitar community at this point - it's easy to talk about gear all the time but I'm much more interested in the songwriting/ music making.

And yeah, I get the same thing as you - Sometimes I'll have a riff or fragment of a song and just have no idea where to take it, or what unwritten music it should come out of. And there's nothing more frustrating than a great piece of music with no ideas for lyrics/ melodies!

I've got your soundcloud page playing while I work, I really like the production. What kind of synths do you work with and how do you choose the sounds? I tend to get intimidated by VST synths because I'll load it up and kinda think "Well, I can do anything... and I've got no idea what I'm actually looking for"...

PolarityMan

Cirrus said:

Snap said:

with you there brother!

Not enough discussion around on our own efforts IMO

I think it's almost a cultural thing within the guitar community at this point - it's easy to talk about gear all the time but I'm much more interested in the songwriting/ music making.

And yeah, I get the same thing as you - Sometimes I'll have a riff or fragment of a song and just have no idea where to take it, or what unwritten music it should come out of. And there's nothing more frustrating than a great piece of music with no ideas for lyrics/ melodies!

I've got your soundcloud page playing while I work, I really like the production. What kind of synths do you work with and how do you choose the sounds? I tend to get intimidated by VST synths because I'll load it up and kinda think "Well, I can do anything... and I've got no idea what I'm actually looking for"...

Same here. one advantage of working with a band, even if you do the majority of the writing is that generally by the time you go to record youve played the songs loads of times so there's much less risk of getting the thing where you end up hating the song.

PolarityMan

So listened to the first track, not sounding bad at all, having the dynamics of a real drummer would really help with the hypnotic feel of the verses. Singing is is good too.

Snap

Cirrus said:

Snap said:

with you there brother!

Not enough discussion around on our own efforts IMO

I think it's almost a cultural thing within the guitar community at this point - it's easy to talk about gear all the time but I'm much more interested in the songwriting/ music making.

And yeah, I get the same thing as you - Sometimes I'll have a riff or fragment of a song and just have no idea where to take it, or what unwritten music it should come out of. And there's nothing more frustrating than a great piece of music with no ideas for lyrics/ melodies!

I've got your soundcloud page playing while I work, I really like the production. What kind of synths do you work with and how do you choose the sounds? I tend to get intimidated by VST synths because I'll load it up and kinda think "Well, I can do anything... and I've got no idea what I'm actually looking for"...

thanks for listening, and also the nice comments on production - I'm on a huge learning curve in mixing and producing and its something I really focus on. Sometimes it comes out well, others not so!

Synths - upto about 12 months ago, I only used synths on an ipad, recorded straight into the DAW as audio. There's some amazing synths on iOS for peanuts, and they are almost as powerful, some just as powerful, as a VST. Alchemy is one of my favourites.

VSTis - I use a lot of Native Instruments stuff, I have NI Komplete Ultimate. So, I use a lot of Kontakt stuff - esp things by Heavyocity like Evolve and EVolve Mutations - these are good for big sounds and indsutrial stuff. I used them for Minotaur.

Damage (in NI Komplete) is fantastic for drums, and percussive sounds, that was used on Minotaur for all the drums. You play it via a keyboard, a lot easier than it sounds!

Other NI synths I like are Massive, FM8, Razor and Monark (emulation of a minimoog).  Oh and Absynth of course.

I also use two other Cakewalk synths which are superb - Z3ta +2 and Rapture Pro - they are brilliant, and not too expensive. GOod for arps and more EDM type sounds. But the instrument emulations,orchestra and piano stuff are very very good too.

I have Alchemy VST too - nothing really like it,very versatile.

For pianos and orchestra stuff I tend to use NI Kontakt instruments. Ultimate comes with aload of good pianos. I am just starting to get my head around Action Strings, which looks awesome for big cinematic stuff.

I love VSTs - really they are not that daunting once you start working with them. Very easy.

I am about to get omnisphere 2 as well.

Then I think I will back off!!

VSTAS!!

Cirrus

PolarityMan;842506" said:

Same here. one advantage of working with a band, even if you do the majority of the writing is that generally by the time you go to record youve played the songs loads of times so there's much less risk of getting the thing where you end up hating the song.

Absolutely, I do most of the writing in mine, but the other guys are actually pretty good at problem solving - if there's something in the song that's bad, they find it and suggest ways to change it. Or if we play it in practice a few times and people are looking bored, well maybe it wasn't as good as I thought.

PolarityMan;842851" said:

So listened to the first track, not sounding bad at all, having the dynamics of a real drummer would really help with the hypnotic feel of the verses. Singing is is good too.

Thanks, the singing is probably the bit I struggle with the most. In my band our singer has a big powerful rock voice and I think I compare my singing to his - and come to the conclusion that I sound like a congested child.

I've booked a week of work in December to record real drums, so what I want to do now is basically learn from the demos - what works, what doesn't, what sections just need chopping or changing, tempos, keys etc.

Snap;842976" said:

Synths - upto about 12 months ago, I only used synths on an ipad, recorded straight into the DAW as audio. There's some amazing synths on iOS for peanuts, and they are almost as powerful, some just as powerful, as a VST. Alchemy is one of my favourites.

Oh man, Ipad Synths! I went through a phase a couple of years ago when I downloaded LOADS, and also got an Alesis IO Dock so I could more easily record onto my DAW with them + a little midi keyboard. Generally the way I use them is to randomly scroll through all the presets, so it takes me about an hour to find the sound that works for the one sustained pad sound that hardly anyone will ever notice. ) I used Alchemy and Animoog on this one; it's quite short and there's very little singing.

Snap

I think thats a cracking track, good vocals too.

You listened to a band called Amplifier? If you haven't, check out their first album, called Amplifier! Guarantee you will like them.

Some good guitar sounds going on in these tracks too. Hey Joe - my all time favourite song!

Snap

on VSTs - sound creation is a massive thing. I can get lost in that for hours and still come out with shite. Don't have a problem with presets tbh, I often find one and tweak it a bit into somthing a bit different. Face it, the guys who make these presets know what they are doing.

What I like about Omnisphere 2 is the ability to bring in your own audio and use the engine. I believe you can do it with Alchemy too.

I had some great field recordings that I bleeding deleted by accident. Stuff like the Imam doing his thing over the tannoy, in a bay in Turkey, doing the call to prayer. Sounded great. Ho hum.

Cirrus

Snap;843069" said:

You listened to a band called Amplifier? If you haven't, check out their first album, called Amplifier! Guarantee you will like them.

Yes! The Octopus was in rotation in my car for about a year after it came out!

Snap

I frist discovered them as a support band for (of all acts) Gary Numan at Rock CIty at the time of their first album. They were immense live, seriously impressive. 3 fellas making a lot of very high quality noise. Very good musicians

spark240

@Cirrus...I quite like it... think there is some stuff you could do with those tracks to really enhance them, do you plan to continue working on them?

Good news is you are local to me.....maybe catch up one day !

Cirrus

@spark240, yes, these are basically pre production demos - I find that the easiest way to write songs. I'm gonna start recording them proper in a few weeks, this weekend I've been trying to dust off my rusty drumming chops!  B-)

If you've got any particular suggestions for improvements, they're most welcome! And thanks for listening.

kin

enjoyed a place to hide away and really liked Guarded eyes, the intro especially was very cool