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In this Discussion
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The singing thread
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Comments
I am positive allot of this is psychosomatic, although that said I can hear things exactly in my head, but I cannot seem ton get them out. Trying to sing higher this last week, I forgot how to sing low, son the best I could do was maybe a Dflat2. I listen to stuff I recorded and it sounds like someone else. It is weird. Seem to have gotten worse all round actually.
Think I will always keep a capo handy.
Been practicing 'Aa' sounding arpeggio's and whilst the C4's are getting better, as are the D4's and E4's and even ropey G4's and almost the G4, as in the E4-G4-E4 'Heart's of Gold' although I mostly slip into falsetto, but working my way up to the A4 as in 'Run' away high. I wanna be able to sing like Vince.
This guy is brilliant, especially the 'WHO' thing and then yawning it back down the notes, thinking of notes in terms of frequency and not high and low and also in his other straining video, pointing out the fact that head voice has basically no resonance that you can feel for comfort. I'm getting it now. I think....finally...finally...the penny may have dropped. This guy nails it totally.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwwgXRJiMU0
It's like training for a sprint by walking everywhere
You need to sing in that uncomfortable range a lot
It will be sore
It will sound Gash
But that's what you need to do
I couldn't sing at all when I joined my first band
2 years of doing backing vocals above a tenor (that I really couldn't sing) made it better
Another 3 years of playing 4 nights a week and singing backing vocals above a better singer and then starting to sing lead vocals improved me even more
2 years of singing songwriting on my own with an acoustic guitar made it better still
2 years singing lead vocals in a Led Zeppelin Tribute put another couple of notes on my range
3 years of running my own band then 2 years of wedding band playing 3-4 nights a well doing 50% of the lead vox in a 4-5 hour set
5 year singing frusciante backup vocals but not in Falsetto in a Chillis tribute
Currently singing high Harmonies above a female singer in an 80s-90s metal band
None of it comes easy mate. You need to put the graft in. If you sing a couple of hours a day on stuff you can't do I'm 100% sure in 3-6 months you will see a vast improvement
At the moment you are getting bogged down in too much technicality and depressed about your range
You just need to do it. Do a few open mics. I promise you ... It focuses the mind
Less typing more singing!
Yeah, try double tracking.(1minute 11 seconds - "who we are")
The 'we' goes up to B4. So it's C#4, B4, G#4.
I've got the notes, and it doesn't hurt or feel uncomfortable. Requires a shit ton of support, but the two ways I can do it... one sounds too muffled and in the back of my throat, and the other sounds really weedy and overly bright, and might involve a raised larynx. Which I'm not sure if it's something you can get away with on those notes... I mean... the larynx needs to move somewhat... and if I'm not feeling strained, it's all good right?? Ahhh, I dunno... need to take it to my teacher I suppose.
Yeah you could kill that easy, he even sings like you and doesn't sound like he has a high chest register.
He only had to get close
@Cabicular whilst you are here, I listened back and in fairness you kind of sound like a Baritone too but do make a good tone and effort of it, unlike that video where it is obvious the bloke has a naturally deeper register. Can I explain why I was being technical approach. If it were guitar, I'd say the same, I'm self taught, it's feeling it, not learning it, but for singing that approach didn't work for me.
I think the only reason I am being technical about it is because I have had literally no geographical reference of where I am. I have no idea what frequency I am singing in, all I know is that it doesn't sound like what is sung in popular music and when I have always tried to emulate that I couldn't do it and it hurt. I know where a note on the guitar is played, I even know what guitar it is probably played on and which pups are used, but singing, I have had no idea of frequencies until I related them to the guitar notes. I don't believe you are restricted to whatever you were born with, but it does take a lot of practice to get a decent tone in the upper registers if you have a deeper speaking voice.
I have a limited range and want it quick and don't think I have an especially deep voice, but I mean is it surely not that common for someone to be able to easily sing a B1 off the bat when learning to sing? Of course it takes work and I'm lazy. Some people just need training.
I have kind of opened my eyes very recently and I think you are right Drew. Equally well, if I didn't adopt a technical approach to analyse where I am at, I would still be writing off anything over a B3 and singing Warren Zevon songs, often an octave lower in the zone that sounds good, which is OK, but isn't Motley Crue.
Should have stuck to guitar.
Does this makes sense?
Either way, seriously, I hate the sound of people with deeper register trying to sing high, I'II be honest, I think it just doesn't do the music any favours and personally think it's all about chest voice, which is what you are born with.
Although I now have realise vaguely what a head voice is and it has opened my eyes a bit.
I have a naturally low voice my range is 3 1/2 octaves but that last octave and a half I have to fight for
I think you need to sing stuff that always pushes your voice in the higher registers and will start to get stronger
I swear when I was doing the Zep stuff week in and week out I could hit a high F# consistently
Now days I'm lucky to get above high D. All that's changed is I don't do it anymore
Everyone who gets better at anything does it by pushing their limits. At the moment I think you are concentrating too much on theory as it is easier than the slog of the practice. There is a danger that poor training develops bad habits (and god knows years of live singing and harmony singing have given me mine.. Mainly cheats to get through the night that people don't notice in a live environment) but conversely you'll never be able to hang in that zone unless you get in there in the first place
Sing home sweet home in the correct register every day for a couple of weeks and if you don't get any better or it doesn't increase your range then you've proved me wrong
Agreed...I also have a 3 octave register...but it furking starts at B1.
Just thought I'd get that last one in there before the chip gets disassembled.
And with respect, you and Drew are totally right. Although I do wanna expand both ways, it's not all about metal, I wouldn't mind knocking out a consistent A1 or even brown sound E1, that would be cool. If I could sing and instantly everyone in the room would shit their pants, actually that is my dream.
But everything I have researched states that people with deeper registers have richer voices so to look to the positive....
That video guy is great though, especially with reference to the lower registers not distinguishing falsetto and head voice in classical music, which is entirely my struggle right now. He does know a lot and explain things well.
Theory over practice, In always hated aspiring guitar players that did that and they always sounded shit. Funny old world eh.
Listen to ANY country music song in the last 5 years
Producers are using it as an effect even on people who have no problem singing. And I promise you that track has been through the Antares or Melodyne plug in. It smooths out any natural variations in pitch and leaves a pretty obvious formant footprint
That tone has become a vocal effect in itself. I think it's horrible personally but that's fashion for you
Either midi synced to pull the right scales in or even in the case of one VERY big band with a keyboard playing the right notes along with the song so the pitch is correct
Again I'm not saying that's yer man but it happens. Maybe more than most people think
It must be a man thing. Guess it's not easy for everyone eh.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9U5HGYe0Mk
http://iansidden.com/2009/09/tenor-or-a-baritone-5-questions-to-help-you-decide/
Found this which is interesting. I don't really understand it.
Also been researching popular and rock singers, apart a few like Morton Harket and Axl Rose, most of them as with everyone else have a 3 octave or 3 and a half octave range. Choristers generally have a 3 and a half octave range.
Just saying that if I can sing a B1 or C2 without any training A4 might just be completely unobtainable for me, as it's basically a whole fourth octave, which is a big ask, hence why I probably keep slipping into falsetto. Although I will endeavour to keep practicing and never say never.
Nearly there, only another 18 years to go.
Yeah, it's on 'Ridiculous' I think and not really frying, C2 would definitely be a full bodied reliable note. The lowest gets more unreliable as I try to sing higher. Can't really do an A1 though reliably or loud, it's just out of my reach.
I haven't got a chip on my shoulder or anything BTW, it's just that I am a merchant of doom.
Drew can you hit a consistent G4 now? Given that I haven't had any lessons yet and have a similar or slightly deeper voice, I suppose in fairness, hitting an even higher A4 is a big ask. That bloke singing for Karnivool does not have a high voice. I gotta say I hate it when baritones pretend to be tenor rock singers, it just sounds bad to my ears. I think, if you are gonna go that high route, you have to go with the purity of the tone and go full out A Ha on the situation, get great at mixing in your falsetto and sing like a choirboy and just accept that is the way things are.
I'm gonna get lessons and hold a gun to the matey's head until I can sing a loud A4 in head voice.
Looking at the link, it does make sense to me as my break to head voice is about where they say, so if I was into classifying I would say I was the bass above Profondo, which might be say one below you and basically a low baritone and hazard a guess @Cabicular would be a baritone slightly higher than you. Although, that is classical style I guess and honestly I'm only looking cause I can't do it.
I look at normal schooling videos for blokes and they say 'You should be hitting your break now' and I'm like 'Er no mate, that was 3000 octaves ago, I'm already heading to Falsetto territory'.
In conclusion if you are any sort of Baritone and a bloke, I guess it just comes down to hard graft and a lot of hours in.
Obviously bare in mind that I also have no idea what I am on about because I haven't had training.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zSIvAqPldM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgAZF8aI7yM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEvoPC4UwzY