Baritone Conversions

Jetfire

So, is it just the sample thing to do to pop a baritone neck onto a guitar body and you're good to go? (obviously, ignoring more general details like pocket fit etc etc)

 

ICBM

Assuming the scale lengths match correctly so the bridge is in the right place, yes. You might also have to modify the bridge saddles to take the heavier strings, but that's about it.

But before you by a new neck, I have converted several normal guitars - mostly Teles - into baritones without even changing the neck, if that sounds interesting! All you need to do is find a suitable low string.

If you think about it, for a B-B baritone, the top five strings are the same as the bottom five of a normal guitar, so all you need to do is move those five across one position - there is no issue with scale length or tension, they're the same strings tuned to the same notes. (A semitone difference for the G becoming an F#, but that's it.)

Then you just need to find a low B - I've used 60 or 65-gauge double-ball-end bass strings with the large ball end cut off, leaving the small 'headstock' ball which is the same size as a normal guitar ball end, so it will fit the bridge. These are about the largest that will fit in most guitar machineheads without modifying them, or unwinding the outer wrap of the string far enough to get the core only into the tuner.

I also did one that was tuned A-A using 15 to 75 gauge strings, with a wound (22) B, and the only modification I had to make to the guitar was the nut. (I unwound the low A string to fit the post.) This was on a 1969 Bigsby Tele - it worked perfectly even with trem use.

Jetfire

Hmm, I really fancy trying a baritone to see what the score is but there isnt one locally for me to have a crack on. Does that set up then have the kinda tension you'd expect? Is it loose like a goose or is it more thick strings with standard tension? Im looking for low and clear...

ToneControl

Warmoth do drop-in replacement necks (28 and 5/8 inches scale) that require no messing other than the intonation

I have a few baritones, my recommendations are:

• Use 28 and 5/8 inches or 30 inches: the 27 inch one doesn't sound right to me with baritone strings, it does work D to D or C to C with thick normal strings, but doesn't feel or play right run B to B with baritone strings
• Avoid using a very thick plain string (22 or so), a wound one behaves better
• You can restring some Bass VI guitars, I have done this, sounds good
• Same principles apply to acoustics, my 27 inch Yairi was blown away by my 30 inch Alan Arnold (strings worked better, as well as the better quality of the guitar). The 27 inch also sounded better with heavy normal strings tuned D-D or C-C

 

ICBM

Jetfire said:

Hmm, I really fancy trying a baritone to see what the score is but there isnt one locally for me to have a crack on. Does that set up then have the kinda tension you'd expect? Is it loose like a goose or is it more thick strings with standard tension? Im looking for low and clear...

It has exactly the same tension as standard guitar tuning. That's the whole point - I know this seems odd because you know that tuning down lowers the tension, but you just have to think about it… five of the strings are the *same* strings that you normally use, tuned the same, just fitted one slot differently.

So instead of say 10-13-17-26-36-46, you use 13-17-26-36-46 (sound familiar? ) and then find a suitable string to make the low B - 60 or 65 seems about right, and are easily available bass strings. In order to fit a standard guitar bridge, use a double-ball-end (Steinberger) bass string and cut the big ball end off.

You might also possibly want to increase the G by a single gauge to compensate for it becoming an F#, but that's it.

If you want to tune A-A you need to go up about one gauge set, so instead of your top five strings being from a set of 10s, use 11s. (Or 10s if you normally use 9s.)

Remember you will have to widen the nut grooves as well - although if you do it carefully and keep the grooves properly rounded at the bottom - not flat or v-shaped - you will be able to go back to the standard strings without replacing it.

JookyChap

I just broke the high E on my old Epi - so I'm claiming it as a five-string-baritone now

I must admit, joking aside, that is genius and I kinda feel stupid that it has been staring me in the face..have a double wisdom

ThePrettyDamned

ICBM gets a wisdom. Again.

Might have to set up my jazzbastard for baritone now...

chrispy108

Or you can just buy a 13 heavy set?

http://www.stringsdirect.co.uk/p/911822/daddario-ej22-nickel-wound-jazz-w-wound-3rd-13-56-medium/ - Probably a bit lose on the low end.

http://www.stringsdirect.co.uk/p/911833/dr-handmade-drop-down-tuning-electric-guitar-strings-13-65/

guitarcookie1

chrispy108 said:

Or you can just buy a 13 heavy set?

http://www.stringsdirect.co.uk/p/911822/daddario-ej22-nickel-wound-jazz-w-wound-3rd-13-56-medium/ - Probably a bit lose on the low end.

http://www.stringsdirect.co.uk/p/911833/dr-handmade-drop-down-tuning-electric-guitar-strings-13-65/

Might try some of those on my Epi Dot.

ICBM

chrispy108 said:

Or you can just buy a 13 heavy set?

http://www.stringsdirect.co.uk/p/911822/daddario-ej22-nickel-wound-jazz-w-wound-3rd-13-56-medium/ - Probably a bit lose on the low end.

http://www.stringsdirect.co.uk/p/911833/dr-handmade-drop-down-tuning-electric-guitar-strings-13-65/

Out of those I'd go with the DRs - a 56 is unlikely to be heavy enough for a low B. But check that the 22 isn't a plain string, if it is (which I suspect it might be given that a 26 or even 28 wound would be a closer fit for the rest of the gauges) it probably won't sound good for a baritone.

chrispy108

Yeah, I'd go for the heavier set too. Strings direct have some heavy singles too, earnie ball do a 64 or 66 it seems

randomhandclaps

D'Addario do the EXL157 which is 14-68 with a wound 3rd.

ICBM

randomhandclaps said:

D'Addario do the EXL157 which is 14-68 with a wound 3rd.

That sounds ideal - I know they say they're for long-scale Danelectro baritones but I don't see any reason they won't work on a conventional guitar since the top strings are the same as a set of 11s and they're plenty heavy enough.

Hmmm… I have a Danelectro, although it's not a baritone…

yet .

ToneControl

this is the best string calculator I found for choosing strings for baritones

http://vinic.free.fr/strings/?l=0

I would reiterate that I have tried heavy strings on normal scales and on 27 inch scales, and been quite disappointed. I'd advise anyone having the same feeling to try a longer scale before rejecting the idea of a baritone

chrispy108

Indeed, a baritone and a detuned 6 will sound/feel different due to the scale lengths.

Compare the low B on a 7 string (normally 25.5", some are longer though) and a proper baritone.

But as a cheap/quick/easy way to give it a go it works fine.

UnclePsychosis

ICBM said:

Assuming the scale lengths match correctly so the bridge is in the right place, yes. You might also have to modify the bridge saddles to take the heavier strings, but that's about it.

But before you by a new neck, I have converted several normal guitars - mostly Teles - into baritones without even changing the neck, if that sounds interesting! All you need to do is find a suitable low string.

If you think about it, for a B-B baritone, the top five strings are the same as the bottom five of a normal guitar, so all you need to do is move those five across one position - there is no issue with scale length or tension, they're the same strings tuned to the same notes. (A semitone difference for the G becoming an F#, but that's it.)

Then you just need to find a low B - I've used 60 or 65-gauge double-ball-end bass strings with the large ball end cut off, leaving the small 'headstock' ball which is the same size as a normal guitar ball end, so it will fit the bridge. These are about the largest that will fit in most guitar machineheads without modifying them, or unwinding the outer wrap of the string far enough to get the core only into the tuner.

I also did one that was tuned A-A using 15 to 75 gauge strings, with a wound (22) B, and the only modification I had to make to the guitar was the nut. (I unwound the low A string to fit the post.) This was on a 1969 Bigsby Tele - it worked perfectly even with trem use.

Interesting, very interesting....I have a danelectro U2 that I fancy doing this to. I might have a crack at it...