Selling Replica Guitars With Gibson and Fender Logos?

DulcetJones

This guy has a couple of guitars on Kijiji here and has them for sale at a big junk barn that happens to be close to me so I went and had a look.  There's 7 or 8 of these guitars, he's asking $450.00CAN (about 265PBS) and the only saving grace is he wrote the word "replica" on the price stickers and in his Kijiji ads.  The guitars don't exactly look right(especially the Les Paul Gold Top) but to the untrained eye they could be passed off as the real thing.  I mean, what's to stop someone from buying one, throwing away the price sticker with the word "replica" on it and putting it up for sale?  Here's a pic of one of the Gibson headstocks:

And here's a link to the ad, you can see some of his other guitars buy clicking on the "View posters other ads" link.  http://kingston.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-musical-instruments-guitars-ES-335-DOT-REISSUE-ES335-FIGURED-TRI-BURST-electric-guitar-W0QQAdIdZ542308093QQfeaturedAdZtrue

Bogwhoppit

I'm not sure of the law in Canada, but if that was in the UK or USA then it is a criminal offence. I can say that with authority without even referring to the relevant statute.

 

UK Law

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/ipenforce.htm

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/ipenforce/ipenforce-crime/ipenforce-role/ipenforce-group/ipenforce-workplace/ipenforce-workplace-matters/ipenforce-workplace-matters-criminal.htm

"Infringement of trade marks and copyrights can be criminal offences, as well as being actionable in civil law. A range of criminal provisions are set out in the relevant Acts, and other offences such as those under the Fraud Act 2006 may also be applied. These criminal offences are most often associated with organised crime groups who are dealing for profit in fake branded goods or pirated products. However,  these offences can also occur in legitimate business, for example if an employee uses the workplace to produce and/or sell quantities of fake DVDs or branded goods to colleagues or outside the office"

 

 

Canadian Law

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/fep-pelf/ipr-dpi/faq-eng.htm

ThePrettyDamned

Bleh, I don't like it at all. My mate has a korina epi Explorer that has a Gibson sticker on it. What's more, it is one of the best playing and sounding guitars I've ever had the pleasure of playing, so it matches for quality.

I just don't like it. Why kid yourself?

LooseMoose

Given they are pretty poor 'replicas' (headstock shape wrong and incorrect truss rod cover) I wouldn't think they would be likely to fool anyone that actually knows enough to play one...

John_P

LooseMoose said:

Given they are pretty poor 'replicas' (headstock shape wrong and incorrect truss rod cover) I wouldn't think they would be likely to fool anyone that actually knows enough to play one...

I don't think they are that wrong that newish player wouldn't be fooled.

I don't get it - adding a decal is as wrong as any other fake to me.   The only time I can see it being "ok" is for a custom/home made job that you aren't going to sell and even then I'd rather see something that has the old tokai way of using gibson/fender style but you're own words.

thermionic

Jeez, have you seen where the knobs are on the 335? And the "Les Paul Custom" trussrod cover straight off an Epi?

I don't mind people doing a labour of love to try and recreate the craftsmanship (or maybe just high standards of mass manufacture) of the 50s and 60s and I have no real problem with seeing a Gibson or Fender Logo on them when anybody who's taken an interest knows what it is. In fact you could say that applying the decal or the inlay is just part of the process and attention to detail. Putting a fake logo on a sloppy POS and trying to pass it off as something else is totally different imo.

Looks like he's just selling on Chinese fakes at a profit.

DulcetJones

The guy was there and when he saw me looking at a couple he spoke up to make sure I knew he had a few more over in the corner.  I told him I was kind of curious about them having the logos and stickers but he just stood there and didn't respond.  There was a tele that looked really jooky and it had what looked like an actual Fender decal but it was missing most of the last "r" in the word telecaster.  Hopefully his prices will deter anyone who might otherwise be duped, but you can buy a brand new Squier or Epi that are better quality than what I saw here, or even an MIM strat.

Monstronaut

What really bugs me is the vintage accurate replicas that are revered on mlp forum. The guitars here are easy to spot but these replicas are accurate in every way to '59 les paul. It only takes one loose moral owner to claim it's real...

axisus

I hate it when people do that! For me the MOST annoying thing is people putting 'custom shop' logos on Fender knock-offs. Seems to be happening more and more these days.

Fender and GIbson should employ people to aggressively go after fake sellers and hit them with big fines. Apparently Rickenbacker have a very aggressive stance over that stuff - I believe that the basschat forum will not let anyone sell any rickenbacker for fear of reprisal.

impmann

Yes Rickie have become almost fascistic in the way they hound folks who are selling parts and especially Rickie truss rod covers (even real ones). They have become very aggressive towards the Tokai Rockinbetters - to the point where if you put one on ebay (not even mentioning the Rickie name) they complain and I've seen ads removed. Now that is silly...

But here's a question - if you build a parts guitar and the neck is a genuine Fender one, if you leave the Fender logo on the Fender neck, does that make you a bad person? Or if you put an Allparts neck on a genuine Fender guitar, and that has a logo on it (bear in mind its a Fender Licensed neck) does that make you a bad person?

GuitarMonkey

axisus said:

Fender and GIbson should employ people to aggressively go after fake sellers and hit them with big fines. 

Hanging is too good for these monsters.

kos5150

This bloke has made a fortune picking up cheap Squiers, changing the pickguard and then sticking a Fender logo on them:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Squier-by-Fender-Telecaster-vintage-white-with-upgrades-Tele-with-a-difference-/261332331888?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item3cd89eed70

It's amazing what the 'correct' label on an item will do for it's selling power.

streethawk

kos5150 said:

This bloke has made a fortune picking up cheap Squiers, changing the pickguard and then sticking a Fender logo on them:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Squier-by-Fender-Telecaster-vintage-white-with-upgrades-Tele-with-a-difference-/261332331888?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item3cd89eed70

It's amazing what the 'correct' label on an item will do for it's selling power.

 A fortune.  8-> 

£189.00

I can vaguely recall being a kid who would've loved a real Fender, because that kind of thing was important to me.

Gotta side with the klds here. 

>:D<

kos5150

streethawk said: A fortune.  8-> 

£189.00

Hark at Mr. Rockefeller here. That is £100 over what the thing is actually worth, and that is being generous to it's worth without the decal. Those £100's add up over time...

Bogwhoppit

 

 

impmann said:

 if you put an Allparts neck on a genuine Fender guitar, and that has a logo on it (bear in mind its a Fender Licensed neck) does that make you a bad person?

A Fender logo on an Allparts or Mightymite licenced neck is still an Infringement of the 'Trades Description act 1968' and the 'Trade Marks act 1994'.

impmann

But only if its for sale... ;-)

Bogwhoppit

impmann said:

But only if its for sale... ;-)

As my good wife tells me. Intent, interpretation and implementation allow the law to be flexible.

 

For example : If Trading Standards  knock you up at 6am in the morning with a search warrant (because they've monitored your youtube channel detailing the 26 fake Gibson's you imported from China), they would have good reason to investigate your finance's to see if you were selling them on. 

 

The moral of the story is don't produce a series of 'youtube' videos telling the world of your new found hobby of collecting fake guitars - that of course you'll never sell on.  Whilst you may be 'slightly' on the right side of the law, a complaint to trading standards can open can of worms under Intent, interpretation and implementation of the law.

 

 

streethawk

kos5150 said:

streethawk said: A fortune.  8-> 

£189.00

Hark at Mr. Rockefeller here. That is £100 over what the thing is actually worth, and that is being generous to it's worth without the decal. Those £100's add up over time...

Minus ebay and paypal fees, the cost of the guard/decal/strings, the time it takes to do it...

He'd make more doing a paper round.

kos5150

streethawk said:

Minus ebay and paypal fees, the cost of the guard/decal/strings, the time it takes to do it...

He'd make more doing a paper round.

That’s assuming he’d paid full whack at £89 for a Squier Affinity, which is highly doubtful considering you can easily pick one up for £40-60 on Gumtree or in second hand shops. So fees and strings, etc. are a moot point in that equation and it's fair to say £100 or so is the profit, which like I say, racks up nicely over time and is hardly 'paper round' money.

impmann

Bogwhoppit said:

impmann said:

But only if its for sale... ;-)

As my good wife tells me. Intent, interpretation and implementation allow the law to be flexible.

 

For example : If Trading Standards  knock you up at 6am in the morning with a search warrant (because they've monitored your youtube channel detailing the 26 fake Gibson's you imported from China), they would have good reason to investigate your finance's to see if you were selling them on. 

 

The moral of the story is don't produce a series of 'youtube' videos telling the world of your new found hobby of collecting fake guitars - that of course you'll never sell on.  Whilst you may be 'slightly' on the right side of the law, a complaint to trading standards can open can of worms under Intent, interpretation and implementation of the law.

 

 

Cool - the reason I asked in the first place is:

My La Cab thingy has the neck from a Fender Lite Ash Tele, and has a Fender Logo, as it left the factory with it (the neck, that is). Its not for sale, btw

And

My 1972 Telecaster has an Allparts neck on it, because the original got broken. At the time Fender weren't selling replacement necks and so I went with a licensed one as the next best thing (actually its 10000 times better than the original 1972 Fender neck). It has a logo as I was getting f*cked off with explaining to folk what the guitar was. It is to all intents and purposes a Fender Telecaster (most of it dates from 1972). It will never be sold and will probably end up in my coffin, but it does get gigged from time to time etc...

So am I a bad man? ;-)

Bogwhoppit

impmann said

So am I a bad man? ;-)

lol !  I'm only making an observation, I have no moral compass either way on the issue.

I just think the internet has moved faster then the law can keep up, and its catching a lot of people out. Whether its comments on Facebook and Twitter, the buying and selling of fake goods or looking at someone's titties when there's no proof they're over 65 years of age; we're all ignorant of the law and that is no excuse in front of Judge Jeffreys.

So beware of MILFs selling fake Gibson's while accusing you on facebook of being into animals !