Gibson Tune-o-Matic

impmann

OK peeps, I have a lovely SG Classic. It is fitted with an ABR1 bridge. I also have another SG Special this time with a Nashville. 

The acoustic sound of the Classic is more 'clanky' sounding than the Special, which sounds warm and rich. This also translates into the electric tone - the Classic sounds noticeably spikier/brighter and yet they are near identical in build aside from the bridges.

All of my other Gibsons have the Nashville bridge and all of them sound warmer and rounder both acoustically and through an amp than this SG Classic.

I'd like it to be a little smoother sounding...

So whilst the perceived wisdom (if you read some of the Gibson-based forums) is that the ABR1 is the better bridge, but I am giving thought to installing a Nashville...

Thoughts, anyone?

ESchap

Nylon saddles in your ABR should take out some top and be cheaper and a lot less hassle than fitting a Nashville.

Andyjr1515

I know everyone is going to shout at me... but I really don't think you would hear any difference by just adding a Nashville...

ICBM

Andyjr1515 said:

I know everyone is going to shout at me... but I really don't think you would hear any difference by just adding a Nashville...

I'm not going to shout at you . I think you're right. There's not a lot of difference between the two bridges really.

I think the difference is far more likely to be in the wood, and with an SG especially in the neck joint.

impmann

OK, key piece of info I forgot to mention - both guitars are roughly the same age (within 6 months of each other) and both have near identical neck angles, which I agree with ICBM make the difference between a good and a great SG.

Seeing as both are mahogany, made in the same factory, roughly the same time frame and have similar *everything* except the bridge (obv. the pickups as the Classic has p90s), isn't it a logical thought process?

I've always avoided electrics with nylon bridge saddles - reminds me of cheap Jap Les Paul copies, if I'm honest - wouldn't it dull the sound? Dulling is not what I want, really - its more a case of 'enrichening'!! :-)

GuitarMonkey

impmann said:

Seeing as both are mahogany, made in the same factory, roughly the same time frame and have similar *everything* except the bridge (obv. the pickups as the Classic has p90s), isn't it a logical thought process?

Do you not think the pickups might be a factor?

Edit. Obv. not the acoustic tone!

ICBM

impmann said:

OK, key piece of info I forgot to mention - both guitars are roughly the same age (within 6 months of each other) and both have near identical neck angles, which I agree with ICBM make the difference between a good and a great SG.

Seeing as both are mahogany, made in the same factory, roughly the same time frame and have similar *everything* except the bridge (obv. the pickups as the Classic has p90s), isn't it a logical thought process?

Possibly, although you didn't mention they had different pickups before .

The pickups affect the acoustic sound as well, by magnetically damping the strings. If one guitar has humbuckers and the other has P90s, I would expect the one with P90s to sound brighter even if the guitars were absolutely identical, because a P90 has a narrower magnetic field which has less effect on the strings.

You also can't tell about the neck joints on Gibsons, even with two guitars of the same model made on the same day… they're not as consistent as that.

impmann

OK I accept that P90s sound different to humbuckers - should have clarified something else. I have two other Gibbos with P90s - one being a LP Special, and that sounds much warmer both acoustically and electrically. It doesn't have a full thickness body, it isn't that much fatter than the SG really and guess what, Nashville bridge.

If a pickup is adjusted correctly, my understanding is that the magnetic pull on the strings is minimal - certainly not to the point of affecting the acoustic tone. An easy way to prove this would be to swap the pickguards - both are batwings and the routing is identical... And certainly it wouldn't make the acoustic tone less rich - or would it, really? I'd imagine it to damp out sustain and neither are lacking in that department.

If the neck angle relative to the body is measurably identical, what else can be different, ICBM? 

Just to clarify, its not that it sounds bad - I just have other p90 equipped Gibsons that sounds smoother. Perhaps I'll just bit the bullet and buy some custom magnet P90s from Ash...

ESBlonde

Because the neck tenon and socket are 'hand crafted' in a Gibson they do vary a little and the amount of gap/glue filling makes a significant difference to a guitars sound. Without steaming the neck out of both to check it's impossible to be sure though.

ICBM

impmann said:

If the neck angle relative to the body is measurably identical, what else can be different, ICBM?

Have you even seen inside a Gibson neck joint?

It's also possible that the wood just sounds different - different pieces do resonate differently, and SGs in particular seem to be very subject to variations, probably because the neck is long and 'whippy' and the body is light.

While it's possible that the bridge is changing the tone, I don't think it's all that likely. They're both made from similar metal, of similar mass, and probably don't resonate much. (I know the Nashville is slightly heavier.)

There is only one way to find out though, and it would be a useful thing to know, if you're happy with doing the work...

p90fool

Just swap the bridges between the two guitars.
FWIW there is very little "perceived wisdom" on MLP, which is why I'm banned from there.

thermionic

Even if they were both made on the same day, the wood could have originated from different trees many miles apart (even different countries?), not to mention variables arising from seasoning conditions. I think it would be impossible to take the wood (and joints) out of the equation when comparing two different guitars.

@p90fool beat me to the obvious experiment.

impmann

Sadly swapping to a Nashville involves drilling new holes for the studs. Otherwise I would...

grungebob

Couldn't you just remove pickguards from both completely and then listen to acoustic tones to be sure it's the bridge?

ICBM

impmann said:

Sadly swapping to a Nashville involves drilling new holes for the studs. Otherwise I would…

I think what p90fool means is putting the Nashville bridge on the posts from the ABR-1. It will fit, which will either confirm or not that the bridge itself makes a difference. If it doesn't, you would have to try the stud inserts to be sure.

p90fool

That IS what I meant, but it would probably be inconclusive tbh, as my guess is that if the differences you're hearing are bridge related I think the studs would account for more of that difference than the actual bridge.

That's purely conjecture on my part though.