12AY7 valves: Is a TungSol worth three times an EHX?

DartmoorHedgehog

A preamp valve went dodgy on me at our gig last Friday. Replaced it with a spare 12AX7 I had, but I prefer the sound with an AY which I had none left, so had to order a new one. The one that died was an Electro-Harmonix, which is the most readily-available, and had lasted me 18 months so I just bought another one, but I noticed there are TungSol ones available now - but at three times the price.

I've seen people remark about Russian valves (like the EHX) being unreliable, so what's people's opinions on the TungSol 12AY7s? Worth paying three times the money for? I've got a couple of EHX on order now so it's not an immediate problem, but I'd be interested in people's thoughts.

jpfamps

I like the EH-12AY7, and consider it a good sounding valve.

There have been problems with Russian-made pre-amp valves with spiral filaments. The problem manifested it's in a break down of the cathode / heater insulation and was a real problem in amps with a cathode follower stage (most Marshalls for example) where the cathode may be at 100-150 VDC.

I don't know if the EH-12AY7s use that filament.

NOS 12AY7s are not that expensive if you shop around, and that's what I've got in my Tweed Deluxe.

DartmoorHedgehog

Thanks for that. I'm certainly happy with the sound of the EHX, and TBH if they last 18 months I'm happy with the life at the price they are. Just if the TungSols last three times as long or sound fantastically better (which I know is a matter of opinion) then I'd consider perhaps forking out a bit extra. I'm a bit wary of NOS ones - is there really any guarantee they'd be more reliable than modern ones, and the prices people are asking are often silly. Although sometimes you see them at sensible prices.

BTW, my amp's a Blackstar HT20 head, so a hybrid preamp design. I use an AY in the dirty channel mostly to give a more sensible control over the gain at the lower end of the scale (I'm not a metalhead!). It's not an officially supported swap, but lots of people are doing it and I've had no trouble until now.

Col_Decker

EHX 5751 is what all the cool kids use, just to muddy the water a bit more for ya

DartmoorHedgehog

Col_Decker said:

EHX 5751 is what all the cool kids use, just to muddy the water a bit more for ya

Aren't they a bit more gainy than a 12AY7 though? The AY sounds really good in my amp for my tastes, so I'll probably just stick with that.

ICBM

No, I would not pay three times as much for a Tung-Sol as an EH. They're both OK, but if you're going to pay more, get a NOS one.

The AY7 has less gain but more importantly a much clearer tone than a 5751, which is basically just a lower-gain 12AX7. (I've never actually liked any 5751 I've tried that I can remember.)

jpfamps

ICBM said:

No, I would not pay three times as much for a Tung-Sol as an EH. They're both OK, but if you're going to pay more, get a NOS one.

The AY7 has less gain but more importantly a much clearer tone than a 5751, which is basically just a lower-gain 12AX7. (I've never actually liked any 5751 I've tried that I can remember.)

I think the Tungsols the OP is referring to are NOS.

ICBM

jpfamps said:

I think the Tungsols the OP is referring to are NOS.

I assumed they were 're-issues', since he said "available now" and Tung-Sol 12AX7 'reissues' have been available for some time, but originals were available already .

If they're actually originals, then yes I would pay three times as much.

DartmoorHedgehog

I had assumed the TungSols I saw are new current production ones, but I could be wrong. They were on the HotRox site, and looking at them again the description does say "original USA" so perhaps they are NOS. Either way, it's still three times the price of a new EHX, which I know I like the sound of in my amp...

Does that mean the EHX are still the only 12AY7 in production?

crunchman

I've not personally come across any other new production 12AY7.  I've wanted to try something else.  I don't over much like the EH 12AX7 so I wanted to see if I could find a different 12AY7 for comparison.  I might look at the NOS ones.

ESchap

I think EHX are the only modern 12AY7's? I've been looking for older production valves and have built up a small stash of GE 6092 which is a ruggedised 12AY7. You can get them for about £20 untested and I haven't had one that wasn't 100% plus on my old Avo tester. They don't come up that often, but they are a good valve, very transparent as @ICBM commented. A/B the 6092 with an EHX (with a few hours on it), there's not much difference to my ears. However, I'd wager that the GE's will last years where, as you've seen, the EHX's won't.

DartmoorHedgehog

Interesting ESchap, perhaps I'll keep an eye out for one of those - I've got a couple of EHX ones to keep me going now, but a longer-lasting alternative does sound tempting if it sounds the same. (I assume you meant 6072, can't find any reference to 6092)

ESchap

Oops!  6072 is correct.  sorry.