Idiot needs help with solo ideas...

EricTheWeary

...being of the three chords, one scale and beat it to death school of guitar playing I can't get my head around this. The Beat version of the Andy Williams classic Can't Get Used to Losing You. Yes, not enough Andy Williams on here ...Anyway, we don't have a sax player and this song contains more than three chords. Mid tempo reggae beat for anyone who likes knowing I'm an idiot but doesn't know the song. I could transcribe the sax solo but that's about three years work for me so I'd like a short cut to simple improvised solo wankery. The chords under the solo are / C /F D7/G / D7 F/ times a few then /Em /F /A7 / A7 /D7 /D7 /G / G Gb/ although that final Gb isn't really in the equation. I've tried something based on arpeggios but I'm really just playing the bass line high up the neck :-( .

BahHumbug

Bit dull, I know but, try starting with the bit of the vocal melody that fits the chords. Learn how to play that melody on t'geetar. Once you've got that nailed, start throwing tweaks in. Doesn't have to be flash. If all you're trying to do is get through it, you just need something to fill the space.

EricTheWeary

Cheers @BahHumbug

digitalscream

This is how I write every solo:

Decide how you're going to start the solo - with a bend, with some widdly-widdlies, maybe some double-stops. Decide how you're doing to finish - which note(s) you want to land on, is it going to be an abrupt finish or a long drawn-out delay-soaked tail etc.

Play and record (even on your phone) the rhythm part. Then listen to it back and split it up into sections, potentially of unequal length, and imagine very roughly what somebody else might play then write down one of these words to represent each one:

FAST

SLOW

WAIL

CHOPPY

There you go, that's the structure for your solo.

Now all you have to do is fill in the blanks. That's where the improvisation bit comes in, if you fancy it - you've got a rough structure, so it's more like "guided improvisation" and that constraint makes the improv easier.

stickyfiddle

Any reason not to play something based around the original sax solo on guitar? (e.g. pretty much playing the sax solo?)

randomhandclaps

Sorry if I am misunderstanding the way you have written it out but if the chords are -

C, F, D7, G, Em, A7 (and ignoring the Gb which you say isn't relevant) then the most simple approach would be Am Pentatonic (or Am Dorian if you want to add in passing notes).

EricTheWeary

Cheers all. The Gb is just a final noise on the last beat. @randomhandclaps I think that's right with the chords, I couldn't get my head around what scale might fit across that, I must try Am pentatonic then ( bend to fit over the A7). @stickyfiddle I was a avoiding the sax solo because I'd have to work it out (!) and sax transcribed to guitar often sounds poor anyway ( it is something I have done before and been underwhelmed by the results). @digitalscream I do tend to be lazy with structuring solos, a lot of the band stuff is over quite simple vamps of no prescribed length, just really until the singer gets fed up of me ( I've had to do 5 minute solos whilst he's gone for a walk in the crowd before now with no idea when it would end). However, as this is a fixed structure I ought to be able to have at least a rough structure. 

digitalkettle

My 2p...

'A blues'...it's essentially in A minor as RHC says...but make the most of the chromatic aspect of / C / F D7 / G / D7 F /

i.e. the notes / E / F F# / G / F# F /

Which is what the vocal is suggesting.

(these notes are either the roots or thirds of the chords)

Then when you get to the / Em / F / A7 / A7 / D7 / D7 / G / G Gb / bit, you can still use A blues...just emphasis a C# over the A7.

Aim for a finish on the G...then drop it down, fret by fret, to meet the F which starts the chorus.

randomhandclaps

You don't need to 'bend' the Am pentatonic to fit over the A7, although you can play with the m3rd - 3rd.  Dominant chords will always accept minorisation.  Just remember that half the world of 50's & 60's Rock and Roll is based on people playing minor pentatonics over dominant chords.   Also just think how common A7-D7-E7 blues are with Am pentatonic soloing over the top.

digitalscream

As I just mentioned in another thread...if you're looking for something to help with choosing a scale given a bunch of chords, this is rather handy:

http://jguitar.com/harmonizer/chord2scale

randomhandclaps

The are three obvious problems with that program -

1. It's a computer that negates the realities of physics and the reality of playing.
2. It works in a subtractive fashion to choose scales.
3. In doing this it even contradicts itself.

As one example it uses subtractive processes of note numbers (rather than actual sounds) to suggest scales.  So if you type in the following A7, D7, Em, G, F & C.  The suggestion that pops up at the top of the list is A Minor Bebop.

The notes of Am Bebop are - A - B - C - D - E - F# - G - G#  or  Root, 2nd, m3, 4th, 5th, 6th, b7, 7th.

Now according to the site that will work over A7, because it works subtractively and just says "Well it has a b7th.".  However it also has a major 7th so trying hitting that on the A7.  Interestingly though it doesn't readily suggest Am pent or A dorian, both of which are present in Am bebop, but without having the drawback of the major 7th.  In fact it says that A dorian will not work over A7 despite the fact it has all the same notes except for the major 7th.  A dorian presents an issue over the F with the F# but the F# doesn't feature in A minor pentatonic: A - C - D - E - G, which features no clashing notes over any chord except for the entirely acceptable and well used minoristation of the A7 & E7.

digitalscream

Well, it does assume some level of basic musical common sense - for example, A Phrygian has a Bb, but you wouldn't use that Bb over the root chord because it sounds horrible.

So...yes, you can use Am Bebop over those chords, but you wouldn't use every single note over every single chord.

In any case, it gives you a good starting point for where to go with a set of chords. It might not be 100% appropriate to blindly follow it, but if you've got functional ears then it's useful in the sense of going from knowing nothing to knowing something

randomhandclaps

But unfortunately it doesn't provide something for those who know nothing, it provides wrong information which is IMO is worse.  It just also seems odd that on a seemingly less straight forward progression it can't spot the most obvious and simplest in road.

The difference between dorian and bebop minor is the addition of the natural 7th to make it an 8 note scale but it is really bizarre that it doesn't spot this or that both contain Am pentatonic. 

lionel_le_flaneur

Hello, I'm new here and this is my first attempt to join in so I hope it goes ok. 

PolarityMan

So I think we're missing the key piece of information here..which is what pedals do you have?

57Deluxe

@EricTheWeary  Go and listen to the original and turn your ear to the brass/strings upper registers.... go there