Blackmachine - tell me about them

gordiji

I love the look of the headstock on these guitars but would be worried in my non luthier way, that it would be prone to twisting & warping in time. It does seem very thin in the major load bearing part ?

Halikus

I remember jamming out on a very similar tele at James Leaders place when I was having my Herbert looked at.  So very cool, just had a resonance that surprised me completely due to the thin body profile.  One day lads, one day.

Bucket

FelineGuitars said:

who was a mouthpiece for Ormsby or at least was behind the Hypemachine Blackmachine knock off project built by Ormsby

Now... I do kind of want an Ormsby, but one of the new 29-fret Tele-shaped multi-scale 7-strings they have coming out soon. Wouldn't touch a Hypemachine or any other BM rip-off with a ten foot pole.

Halikus

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Blackmachine-Tele-Guitar-Handmade-in-London-GENUINE-/172066478057?hash=item280ff617e9:g:b10AAOSwL7VWmuWW

The bidding war starts now

prh777

ss.org ban everyone pretty frequently.  The mods are fairly petty in my, and others, experience. 

metalguitarist.org was set up by the nice guys who gave up on ss.org.

Bucket

prh777 said:

ss.org ban everyone pretty frequently.  The mods are fairly petty in my, and others, experience. 

metalguitarist.org was set up by the nice guys who gave up on ss.org.

I've been banned from there twice, although not recently. Only for small, petty stuff, as you say. It's not like I go around the place deliberately being a dick... I'd hardly class my behaviour on here as extreme, and I'm probably even less so over there.

Not been on Metalguitarist, although I was on the Guitar Porn forums (now Wired Guitarist I think) for a little while when they first started up... I think it was begun by a couple of disgruntled ex-SSO members as well, although IIRC they were more dickish, and I found them a little shady if I'm honest. The sort of guys who buy guitars cheaply, shout from the rooftops about how wonderful said guitar is while fully intending to flip it for a tidy profit about a week later. I don't really want anything to do with those guys any more.

Deijavoo

Metalguitarist is ok, but it seems very quiet there in recent times unfortunately.

Stevepage

I've never been banned on there. Recently it hasn't interested me, people there can't take a joke and you have to watch what you type or else the mods get shitty.

Metalguitarist, filled with the most interesting former members of SS but unfortunately, quiet. 

Lew

I've played a couple. A B2 and a B6. Both were equally excellent as are Feline. Thin guitars are where it's at.

FelineGuitars

One of the latest ones all ready to be packed and shipped to Australia

Clarky

FelineGuitars said:

One of the latest ones all ready to be packed and shipped to Australia

that is absolutely gorgeous

wizbit81

There won't be a bidding war on that tele, it comes up every now and again on the forums or on Ebay and someone bigs it up as 'THE FIRST BLACKMACHIIIIIIINE!!!'

Then as it's not a B2 or B6 shaped metal machine nobody wants it and it ends up going for about 600 quid.

It could be a fantastic tele, I've no idea. If you want it make the guy an offer and don't fear too much competition for it.

I'd like to try a BM, but like most people all I've heard is the wave of hype that's been spouted from SS and GuitarPorn. I have a few custom guitars and I'm not sure it would be any greater than those. In the end, custom guitars have time, love, and years of experience poured into them. Some are going to suit you, some won't because of the neck shape, frets, sounds, comfort of the body cuts etc.

The regret I have is that when I was at uni I knew someone with a B2. I wasn't bothered as I was only playing jazz on a 200 quid archtop at the time. Didn't try it, and he sold it a couple of years later for 1200 and I didn't even bat an eyelid. At least then I'd have a point of reference for them.

On a side note I also tried to contact Doug two or three times over the years about a build...first a couple of times through the website, and then I met someone who knew him who said they'd pass on an email. Both times no reply, and I've heard that a lot from people. I don't know what black magic you need to wield to even speak to the man if you are just another guitar player.

I'd still like a B2 now, either a build, or a secondhand one. It's unlikely to ever come to fruition though as there is no way I'll help perpetuate the feeding frenzy on the forums with regards the 2nd hand price fixing, and I can't speak to the man himself

wizbit81

There won't be a bidding war on that tele, it comes up every now and again on the forums or on Ebay and someone bigs it up as 'THE FIRST BLACKMACHIIIIIIINE!!!'

Then as it's not a B2 or B6 shaped metal machine nobody wants it and it ends up going for about 600 quid.

It could be a fantastic tele, I've no idea. If you want it make the guy an offer and don't fear too much competition for it.

I'd like to try a BM, but like most people all I've heard is the wave of hype that's been spouted from SS and GuitarPorn. I have a few custom guitars and I'm not sure it would be any greater than those. In the end, custom guitars have time, love, and years of experience poured into them. Some are going to suit you, some won't because of the neck shape, frets, sounds, comfort of the body cuts etc.

The regret I have is that when I was at uni I knew someone with a B2. I wasn't bothered as I was only playing jazz on a 200 quid archtop at the time. Didn't try it, and he sold it a couple of years later for 1200 and I didn't even bat an eyelid. At least then I'd have a point of reference for them.

On a side note I also tried to contact Doug two or three times over the years about a build...first a couple of times through the website, and then I met someone who knew him who said they'd pass on an email. Both times no reply, and I've heard that a lot from people. I don't know what black magic you need to wield to even speak to the man if you are just another guitar player.

I'd still like a B2 now, either a build, or a secondhand one. It's unlikely to ever come to fruition though as there is no way I'll help perpetuate the feeding frenzy on the forums with regards the 2nd hand price fixing, and I can't speak to the man himself

Bucket

Having said what I said about Wired Guitarist earlier in this thread, they have just done this guide to BM which is worth a look.

http://wiredguitarist.com/blackmachine-guitars-a-guide/

wizbit81

You mean the one where they tell you their guitars are worth 12k shortly before they magically become available for sale?

Sporky

Wowzers - are they really going for that sort of money?

I've never played one but do like the design - both in terms of the shapes (apart from that SG one which just doesn't do it for me) and in the engineering/ethos of the things.

wizbit81

The guys on those forums will tell you so! It's $ not £ btw. 

Actual B6 models seem go for around the new value though there was a time they were going for up to 50% more than new, which was as ridiculous as the B7 prices. There's a lot of stuff that goes on with that forum, namely buying a new luthiers stuff, championing it to the hilt, then selling their instruments for waaaay more than they paid. It crushes the small luthiers often, as they can't deal with the influx of orders. They also try get free guitars for themselves via the runs that they do and by badgering people. I've heard some bad stuff about their business practices, especially when the founders were guys who got banned from SS.org for shady deals and ripping people off. 

DLM

@Sporky

Sporky said:

Wowzers - are they really going for that sort of money?

Aye, I know two chaps who own blackmachines and they are constantly being pestered by people offering them sums in that ballpark for them.

Here we have a B2, the first sold commercially, as explained here: http://insince.re/guitars/

http://insince.re/content/images/2014/Mar/blackmachine_b2-1.jpg

And here we have a B8. The same channel has another couple of videos with that guitar. The owner gigs his other eight-strings instead, because they're more replaceable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnWRQma4Fig

Sporky

This has been most informative, thank you chaps.

I'd figured they went for a few grand. I sit corrected!

Bucket

wizbit81 said:

The guys on those forums will tell you so! It's $ not £ btw. 

Actual B6 models seem go for around the new value though there was a time they were going for up to 50% more than new, which was as ridiculous as the B7 prices. There's a lot of stuff that goes on with that forum, namely buying a new luthiers stuff, championing it to the hilt, then selling their instruments for waaaay more than they paid. It crushes the small luthiers often, as they can't deal with the influx of orders. They also try get free guitars for themselves via the runs that they do and by badgering people. I've heard some bad stuff about their business practices, especially when the founders were guys who got banned from SS.org for shady deals and ripping people off. 

Yep.

As I said above, I don't like them at all and want nothing to do with them, but I thought the article was useful just for the breakdown of the different models and the rarity of each. They are a shady bunch of fuckers though. I've seen the above in action, and it's a shame they act in such an unethical, self-serving manner. Bigging up a small new luthier, trying to blag free stuff, promoting them until they become massively oversubscribed, then their quality drops as they try to meet demand, people start slagging them and they go under. The Wired Guitarist guys are usually some of the first to shit on them when the quality drops too, the irony seemingly being lost on them.

If nothing else, props to Blackmachine for staying afloat as it always has, not caving into that pressure, and staying in favour by continuing to make great guitars as always, while other small luthiers drop like flies around them.