Gordon Smith and Richard's Guitars

Dave_Mc

The few I tried I thought were really good- but they were the cheaper models and I have to say that I'm not really interested in the dearer ones. What's endearing or quirky in a £400 guitar isn't so much in a £1000 (or more) guitar, as Ash rightly says once you hit £1500 you're entitled to expect perfection, or at least near enough.

Also I only got to try a couple in a shop so it's not like I got to go over them with a fine-toothed comb, just my first impressions were that I liked them a lot. I've heard a lot of QC complaints from people I trust, too, I'd never buy one I couldn't try first.

Like everyone else I don't know the ins-and-outs of the whole story, but you'd be hard-pushed to justify those pics of those guitars. In my opinion.

ThePrettyDamned

These are the kind of issues I've seen on CS Gibsons.  The worst was a 390? CS in red.  F holes were not finished, just had drips of nitro lacquer.  Yours for £2400. 

Or the LP standards which have cracking and dripping around the bridge posts.  If a £200 epi gets it right...

OilCityPickups

Adam_MD said:

TheGuitarWeasel;101348" said:

I always liked the plain, no frills GS1 ...at least I liked the idea of it. The trouble is the execution has always been a let them down a bit. An Epiphone LP Junior, or a PRS SE One will actually be as good if not better instrument. Now I will have to face washing my mouth out with soap and water for praising a PRS .... damn you all!

You better watch it that's the third time I've read you being nice about PRS. It's about time you came out of the closet and admitted you like them. It's ok no one here will judge you... maybe

Okay ... so if someone offered me a 'One' at the right price or ... oh god yes I'll have to admit it ... one of these

I'd bite their arm off
Yes it's got birds ... I can't have recovered from my man flu properly ...

Adam_MD

TheGuitarWeasel;101380" said:

Adam_MD said:

TheGuitarWeasel;101348" said:I always liked the plain, no frills GS1 ...at least I liked the idea of it. The trouble is the execution has always been a let them down a bit. An Epiphone LP Junior, or a PRS SE One will actually be as good if not better instrument. Now I will have to face washing my mouth out with soap and water for praising a PRS .... damn you all!

You better watch it that's the third time I've read you being nice about PRS. It's about time you came out of the closet and admitted you like them. It's ok no one here will judge you... maybe





Okay ... so if someone offered me a 'One' at the right price or ... oh god yes I'll have to admit it ... one of these



I'd bite their arm off

Yes it's got birds ... I can't have recovered from my man flu properly ...

If you're going to pick a prs you like that's an excellent place to start. I always think the natural prs models look excellent. Really shows the quality.

To try and stay on topic I've only ever played one GS and it was really poor though it hasn't exactly been looked after very well. By the time it appeared on gumtree and I went to see it it looked like a 400 year old guitar.

Antique_Guitars

That headstock veneer is terrible

WezV

Antique_Guitars said:

That headstock veneer is terrible

looks to me like it hasn't been veneered at all.  you can clearly see the same grain going into the truss rod cavity.  i would guess its a scarf jointed headstock with wings added.   normally putting the scarf on the headstock is a conscious decision because you want to hide it under a veneer

like the alt scarf join here

http://www.crenshawweb.com/neck%20joints.jpg

ICBM

The problem with the 'alt' scarf joint shown there - as used on many cheap guitars - is that the join line is always below the line of the neck, just below the line shown there - so it does nothing to reinforce the head, which will break exactly at the line shown there. It's just done for cheapness, not strength. The proper way is the first one, which adds strength as well, but is slightly more costly to make because it involves a bit more precision.

WezV

I have known some very high end makers use the Alt one, although that is always with veneers front and back so you can only see it at the headstock edges.  I know some see that as preferable to the scarf joint on the neck shaft

in this case i think it exactly like the alt one but without the important veneers, and i agree it is most likely done for cost... using smaller pieces of wood, its not like maple is that rare or expensive so this really is penny pinching... but then you only need a narrow strip of neck grade maple and the rest can be added on from whatever

as far as precision goes, i really don't see the difference between the two, but I have always favoured the top.   been quite a while since i have done any scarfs though

Fretwired

I bought two guitars from Richard when he owned Regent guitars - one was a top end Godin. Back then he bundled in a free setup - other dealers did the same thing but often they did bugger all. Richard's tech called me and we discussed the guitar, the strings I wanted etc. It was then set-up and he inserted a note of what had been done in the case. I've only ever had excellent service from Richard.

And if you think Richard's a drama Queen then you've never met Jeff Pumfrett - I knew him when he owned Machinehead. Just ask the question "why don't you stock Gibson guitars" and he'd go into a one-man tirade and the poor quality control and dubious business practices [the number of guitars you had to buy and the terms]. But he wouldn't stock tat in his shop. He now owns World Guitars and keeps the same high standards. Worth checking out.

The23rdman

Fretwired;101416" said:

I bought two guitars from Richard when he owned Regent guitars - one was a top end Godin. Back then he bundled in a free setup - other dealers did the same thing but often they did bugger all. Richard's tech called me and we discussed the guitar, the strings I wanted etc. It was then set-up and he inserted a note of what had been done in the case. I've only ever had excellent service from Richard.



And if you think Richard's a drama Queen then you've never met Jeff Pumfrett - I knew him when he owned Machinehead. Just ask the question "why don't you stock Gibson guitars" and he'd go into a one-man tirade and the poor quality control and dubious business practices [the number of guitars you had to buy and the terms]. But he wouldn't stock tat in his shop. He now owns World Guitars and keeps the same high standards. Worth checking out.

Richard still does the same free setup, which includes a fret level.

Antique_Guitars

very strange

usedtobe

To me, GSG is all about the plain jane GS1, and GS2, and if they get those right - they're worth every penny. If I was looking at spending £1000+ on a guitar - I'd be looking elsewhere. I just don't see them as a tarty-guitar builder! 

There have been mutterings for a few years, now, about the quality of GSG being on a downward trajectory - from people who used to rate them, too..!

Been following the thread on FB, and I think Richard is being on the level on this, and after championing the brand for many years, has finally come to the end of his tether. 

And yes. the shit finishing is unacceptable on a cheaper guitar - let alone a £1k+ custom job! That's taking the piss!

TTony

Didn't someone on the old place strip the finish off an old GS to find that it was made, essentially of scraps, of different types of wood?

Of course, that doesn't - per se - make it a *bad* guitar, but it does suggest a thing or two about GS' standards of workmanship, and their business ethics ...

Gru

After reading the post, I certainly don't blame him for cutting ties with GS. Some of those issues are awful, and to be palmed off by the company is shocking.

While I accept there are two sides to a story, this obviously isn't a one off and sounds like its been brewing for some time.

I personally think Richard should be applauded for looking out for his customers like he does. I dealt with him about 10 years ago and when purchasing the last Greg Bennett Signature Tele, he phoned me to advise me that there were 2 pea sized blemishes in the finish and offered me 10% off, but also wanted to make sure I was happy, before setting it up and sending it out. It was a gem (what a fool I am for selling it!)

Most shops would have just sent it out at the price advertised hoping I didn't notice.

I've had a couple of guitars this year, one second hand, 2 new (one supporting my local shop, one chase direct bargain). But the next time I am in a position to buy a guitar, Richards will be the only shop on my list!

octatonic

ICBM said:

I've never understood why Gordon-Smith have the reputation they seem to have for being good. They've always been poorly-finished, used cheap cost-cutting construction methods, and in some cases have design flaws which result in problems later even if not to begin with.

I know that will upset some people, sorry.

Not me.

Agree 100%- every Gordon Smith guitar I've played felt cheap, played badly and looked like crap.

RichardsGuitars

JookyChap;6832" said:

I know Richard from Richard's Guitars in Stratford isn't everybody's cuppa, but he has been a big supporter of Gordon Smith - so this was sad to read..



Myself, I've only played a handful of their newer guitars and not been impressed compared to the old 'uns, but have never been sure whether it is fake nostalia or just that older wood sounds better etc.

Hi.  Sorry to jump in on a conversation about me but I saw all this traffic coming into my site so just followed it back.  Apologies.

I know I am jumping into the fire for asking this but why am I not "everybodys cup of tea"?  All I have ever done is be honest and have a passion for doing the right thing by anyone?  I turned a £6000 inheritance into a 1.5 million pound turnover when I was at Regent Guitars all on the back of doing the right thing by my customers.  I closed it down with a mental break at which point I declared myself bankrupt.

My reputation was so well regarded suppliers were quick to support me when I decided to return to the trade, focusing on purely one to one service selling ONLY brands I know I can trust to deliver benchmark quality.

So back to my question!  Why would people not like a person who is honest and always has the customers best interests at heart?

Just asking the question and sorry if it puts you on the spot!

RichardsGuitars

impmann said:

Yes but remember that Richard is a drama queen of epic proportions and isn't exactly spotless in his business dealings.
I'd like to see the other side of the argument, as there's probably more to this than meets the eye.

Ummmm,,,,,You guessed it!  I would appreciate what you mean by this?  "isn't exactly spotless in business dealings".  I would like to think I am! 

OK - I will take the drama queen comment.... I think that means "passionate" right?

RichardsGuitars

ESBlonde said:

I admire Richards stance on quality, I fear he may not fit into the world of mass guitar sales against the internet resellers who offer quantity over quality.

I wish Richard and Gordon Smith success in their business ventures, not sure I would want to be in ethers boots right now.

Hi ES - Indeed you could not be more correct which is why I provide the bespoke service that I do.  I only sell quality guitars and personally deal with every customer.  Thats how it will always be.

I too wish GS every success dealing with their customers directly.  There will be more money in it for them and hopefully they can focus on the detail that I know they can produce on the right day.

streethawk

I posted something on MR about the shoddy finishes on a lot of guitars in a shop in Manchester, and not a web driven discount kind of place either. Not just paint but big neck pocket gaps etc. A lot of people said that it didn't really matter, well - ok.

They had a Gordon Smith in and I thought to myself 'this will be mint', I thought that because I assumed GS would avoid some of the mass produced pitfalls. But it was no different to the others. They must be doing better than I had assumed, because if I held their position in the market the one thing I would be concentrating on is build quality and presentation. 

Ironically, the cheaper Chinese produced ones looked the best bang for buck. As has been mentioned: regardless of the quality of woods/componentry, you expect better on a £500 + guitar, and certainly on a £1000+ guitar.

I was sort of narked that the shop would accept this kind of standard, but maybe they don't have so much of a say?

Agree with Richard's stance 100% of the way. 

digitalscream

RichardsGuitars said:

Hi.  Sorry to jump in on a conversation about me but I saw all this traffic coming into my site so just followed it back.  Apologies.

I know I am jumping into the fire for asking this but why am I not "everybodys cup of tea"?

Welcome, mate - we always like it when industry bods join in on here

As for the "not everybody's cup of tea" comment, I didn't read it as anything particularly negative - some people like the forthright, everything-out-in-the-open approach, some people don't and yet more really don't care one way or the other. Think of it as like Marmite, only less polarising