CAGED

Hootsmon

took a CAGED book with me on holiday (Bill Edwards) jolly good read too

he writes..."distinguish between naming chords by counting a fret at a time, and connecting the forms by the CAGED sequence. Counting fret by fret will give you the correct name for any chord, and the caged sequence gives you an overall layout of the fretboard plus a shortcut tae naming"

what shortcut? say you are in the middle of the fretboard on some chord or other but you are NOT counting frets for chord position/name but the CAGED sequence will give you a shortcut, he says....how?

viz

I've read it a few times, and maybe he means, say you are on (choosing at random) fret 6, playing an A-shaped chord, but you don't know it's Eb major for some reason. But you do know that A-shape is 5 frets below E-shape for the same chord, (I'm assuming that you are supposed to know the notes on the E string and that those fret counts are taught previously in the book - I'm not a user of CAGED myself) so by quickly counting up 5 frets ON THE E STRING, and arriving at Eb, you can then name the chord you were playing. 

viz

by the way, I love the way you even write tae when quoting someone! This is why I'm awarding you a LOL ))

Alnico

The way i've always understood the caged system is this.

Any chord can be played up and down the neck in different shapes. C A G E D are the 5 shapes you can play any chord in.
C A G E D keeps repeating so it's fine wherever you jump in, you just carry on the sequence.

If you start with a F chord, you're actually playing an E Chord shape so you jump into the sequence at E and then to find the D chord shape do this......
The lowest note of the next chord up is at the uppermost fret you're using for the previous one so in the case of the F chord it's fret 3.
fret a D chord shape at frets 5 and 6 as you would normally It's lowest note is the root (F) and on the d string it's at fret 3.

WOOAAAHHHHH hang on, we were just on fret 3 !!!

Hey, you're playing an F but you've moved up the CAGED system by one letter to D.

Ok so now carry on. That C Shape is next and you just go to the uppermost fret you've just been using, now is fret 6. Put your index finger there and play a C shape  - Boom tish, it's an F chord in a C shape except the open strings don't work, so look for either the scale within that or a useable part of the chord shape. The open strings that would have been for that chord are at fret 5 which if you put a capo on at fret 5, will make the C shape chord play normally.

The riff for 'Alright now is the A Chord and then that bit you do to make it go "De-Nen-Down", ok well take "NEN" as the bit we're talking about. It's half a C shape you play there and for reference it makes it a D chord because if you use a capo on fret 2 and make it a full C shape starting at Fret 3, you're playing a D. Again look at this, you are playing a D with the first note in the same uppermost fret as the actual D shape uses. C is after D in the CAGED system - Get it ?

C-A-G-E-D-C-A-G-E-D-C-A-G-E-D

So back to your F chord.

Ok so You've played it at
Fret 1 as an E shape Barre chord and your uppermost fret used was fret 3
Fret 3 as a D shape (3 being the root note) and your uppermost Fret used was fret 6
Fret 6 as a C shape and your uppermost fret used was fret 8.

Now you know the A shape barre chord, it uses the 5th string as it's root and if you play it at fret 8, it's an F but in an A shape. Can you see how it fits into the system?

Ok now the G shape, before we start repeating the sequence from where we jumped in, isn't so easy to play as a full chord but the shape is still there.

Our uppermost fret used on the A shape was fret 10.
Pop a capo in fret 10 and play a G chord shape using all 6 strings. There you go, there's your F chord as a G shape. The next one in the sequence is E which is where we started on fret 1 so we go to fret 13 and boom, an F.

Pick any chord and use this system to discover where the chords are up and down the neck and also where some of the scale notes are, since all chords are made up from notes of that scale.

To summarise that:

Start at Fret 1 as an E shape Barre chord and your uppermost fret used was fret 3
Start at Fret 3 as a D shape (3 being the root note) and your uppermost Fret used was fret 6
Start at Fret 6 as a C shape and your uppermost fret used was fret 8.
Start at Fret 8 as an A shape and your uppermost fret used was fret 10
Start at Fret 10 as a G shape and your uppermost fret used was fret 13

Poor old Michael Finnegan,............Begin again.

Carry on Caged !

Teetonetal

For Caged to work well, you need to understand :

1. where the root notes are in each chord shape. 
2. How octaves work,
3. names of the notes.

Shortcuts by themselves don't help. But if you can pin down one of those three pieces of info, then you know what chord you are actually playing quite quickly. From there

Something else that is crucial is that when you learn a scale, you hang it around a CAGED chord shape.

Add all that together, learn it all concurrently and you master the fretboard in a theoretical sense.

For example.
If you want to play a C some where around fret 8

Play Open C using C shape (bass root fret 3, other root fret 1) This is your familiar start point
Play C using A shape (bass root fret 3 other root fret 5)
Play C using G shape (bass root fret 8 other root fret 5)
Play C using E shape (bass root fret 8, also fret 10 and fret 8)

So now you know you have 2 choices around fret 8 for a C chord and you have worked out a bunch of places where the note C is on the fretboard.

If you learnt your scales properly, you know know who to play C major, C major Pentatonic and various C arpeggios all over the neck 

Do that enough and it becomes second nature.

Hootsmon

Alnico said:

The way i've always understood the caged system is this.

Any chord can be played up and down the neck in different shapes. C A G E D are the 5 shapes you can play any chord in.
C A G E D keeps repeating so it's fine wherever you jump in, you just carry on the sequence.

If you start with a F chord, you're actually playing an E Chord shape so you jump into the sequence at E and then to find the D chord shape do this......
The lowest note of the next chord up is at the uppermost fret you're using for the previous one so in the case of the F chord it's fret 3.
fret a D chord shape at frets 5 and 6 as you would normally It's lowest note is the root (F) and on the d string it's at fret 3.

WOOAAAHHHHH hang on, we were just on fret 3 !!!

Hey, you're playing an F but you've moved up the CAGED system by one letter to D.

Ok so now carry on. That C Shape is next and you just go to the uppermost fret you've just been using, now is fret 6. Put your index finger there and play a C shape  - Boom tish, it's an F chord in a C shape except the open strings don't work, so look for either the scale within that or a useable part of the chord shape. The open strings that would have been for that chord are at fret 5 which if you put a capo on at fret 5, will make the C shape chord play normally.

The riff for 'Alright now is the A Chord and then that bit you do to make it go "De-Nen-Down", ok well take "NEN" as the bit we're talking about. It's half a C shape you play there and for reference it makes it a D chord because if you use a capo on fret 2 and make it a full C shape starting at Fret 3, you're playing a D. Again look at this, you are playing a D with the first note in the same uppermost fret as the actual D shape uses. C is after D in the CAGED system - Get it ?

C-A-G-E-D-C-A-G-E-D-C-A-G-E-D

So back to your F chord.

Ok so You've played it at
Fret 1 as an E shape Barre chord and your uppermost fret used was fret 3
Fret 3 as a D shape (3 being the root note) and your uppermost Fret used was fret 6
Fret 6 as a C shape and your uppermost fret used was fret 8.

Now you know the A shape barre chord, it uses the 5th string as it's root and if you play it at fret 8, it's an F but in an A shape. Can you see how it fits into the system?

Ok now the G shape, before we start repeating the sequence from where we jumped in, isn't so easy to play as a full chord but the shape is still there.

Our uppermost fret used on the A shape was fret 10.
Pop a capo in fret 10 and play a G chord shape using all 6 strings. There you go, there's your F chord as a G shape. The next one in the sequence is E which is where we started on fret 1 so we go to fret 13 and boom, an F.

Pick any chord and use this system to discover where the chords are up and down the neck and also where some of the scale notes are, since all chords are made up from notes of that scale.

To summarise that:

Start at Fret 1 as an E shape Barre chord and your uppermost fret used was fret 3
Start at Fret 3 as a D shape (3 being the root note) and your uppermost Fret used was fret 6
* Start at Fret 5 as a C shape and your uppermost fret used was fret 8.
Start at Fret 8 as an A shape and your uppermost fret used was fret 10
Start at Fret 10 as a G shape and your uppermost fret used was fret 13

Poor old Michael Finnegan,............Begin again.

Carry on Caged !

sorted.....very well done Alnico 

Alnico

I usually just gloss over that bit where it should be fret 5 because the open strings of that C shape fall on fret 5.

Otherwise the idea of using the uppermost fret works but i can't work out why it doesn't there.

@Viz

Help !

viz

I think it's just a coincidence that the other chord shapes use the upper fret of the previous chord as their barre. But don't ask me, I'm a luddite where CAGED is concerned - I just struggle to get it. For me it's so much more important to know the inversions because inversions are a musical-harmony-driven approach, not a finger-driven approach:

Starting with chords which use the 6th string for their bottom note (eg E-type chords) and as an example, playing all inversions of E major itself, you have:

E root (tonic as the bottom note): E-shaped chord barred at the nut: 0 2 2 1 0 0
E 1st inv (mediant as the bottom note): C-shaped chord barred at the 4th fret: 4 7 6 4 5 4
E 2nd inv (dominant as the bottom note): A-shaped chord barred at the 7th fret: 7 7 9 9 9 7
E 3rd inv (flat 7 as the bottom note), barred at the 9th fret: 10 11 12 9 9 x



You can also play all the inversions of chords which use the 5th string for their bottom note (eg A-type chords) and as an example, playing all inversions of A major itself, you have:

A root (tonic as the bottom note): A-shaped chord barred at the nut: x 0 2 2 2 0
A 1st inv (mediant as the bottom note): sort-of G-shaped chord barred at the 2nd fret: x 4 2 2 2 x
A 2nd inv (dominant as the bottom note): sort-of D-shaped chord barred at the 5th fret: x 7 7 9 10 9
A 3rd inv, barred at the 10th fret: x 10 11 12 10 12 or x 10 11 12 14 14

I know ECA7 and AGD7 isn't elegant like CAGED but it works for me in terms of playing the voicings that the piece demands.

Alnico

"Sort of G shaped chord" somehow makes so much more sense !

I get that.
Now i need to let my brain get it.

Hootsmon

viz said:

I think it's just a coincidence that the other chord shapes use the upper fret of the previous chord as their barre. But don't ask me, I'm a luddite where CAGED is concerned - I just struggle to get it. For me it's so much more important to know the inversions because inversions are a musical-harmony-driven approach, not a finger-driven approach:

Starting with chords which use the 6th string for their bottom note (eg E-type chords) and as an example, playing all inversions of E major itself, you have:

E root (tonic as the bottom note): E-shaped chord barred at the nut: 0 2 2 1 0 0
E 1st inv (mediant as the bottom note): C-shaped chord barred at the 4th fret: 4 7 6 4 5 4
E 2nd inv (dominant as the bottom note): A-shaped chord barred at the 7th fret: 7 7 9 9 9 7
E 3rd inv (flat 7 as the bottom note), barred at the 9th fret: 10 11 12 9 9 x



You can also play all the inversions of chords which use the 5th string for their bottom note (eg A-type chords) and as an example, playing all inversions of A major itself, you have:

A root (tonic as the bottom note): A-shaped chord barred at the nut: x 0 2 2 2 0
A 1st inv (mediant as the bottom note): sort-of G-shaped chord barred at the 2nd fret: x 4 2 2 2 x
A 2nd inv (dominant as the bottom note): sort-of E-shaped chord barred at the 5th fret: x 7 7 6 5 5
A 3rd inv, barred at the 10th fret: x 10 11 12 10 12 or x 10 11 12 14 14

I know ECA7 and AGE7 isn't elegant like CAGED but it works for me in terms of playing the voicings that the piece demands.

what's that? the ECA bit...oh it's OK I see it 

viz

Cool. Try it - let me know what you think

Hootsmon

D'ya think the triad way has been kind tae you @Viz  ; have you learned a lot this way/method and has it been useful tae you?  

part two of my book deals with triads and inversion and I think your "shapes" may come into it

Hootsmon

I have some really great books tae study at home but I am determined tae get through the "easier"  one like CAGED 1st

viz

Well the thing is, inversions is what I was taught when I was 6 and it's the system I understand. It's just the basis of musical harmony. I use inversions in almost every rock song I play; they're really simple and intuitive, and I think they help me to play musically. 

Alnico

Hang on a minute...........

That "Sort of G shape" i have been using for years.

WOW this is really falling into place !

Give me a day or so to get this into something coherent and also work out how to host video without using you tube and i will come back to you on this.

Alnico

Those inversion work both ways !

The 'E' chord inversions also work using an 'E shape' barre chord as a starting point and then building those inversions on top of that

The 'A' chord Inversions are also all interchangeable as most of the chords using the 6th string as the root can be played using the 5th string as the root so.......

Using a simple E, A, B you can play, well basically all over the place.

Shit, you know for the first time i'm seeing the neck in snakes and ladders mode instead of a forest of silver intersections.

Brilliant. Bloody Brilliant.

I've been playing all of this stuff (Badly) for years but not really know what's going on with it all.
Feels fantastic feeling it all start to click and fall into place.

THANK YOU !

Alnico

Ok this is fucking scary,

Using a simple E, A, B i just wrote a song. A tune at least.

It's derivative (I think) and most of the phrases are i guess a bit predictable but there's some surprises i've found that I really like and......................

well you see this is where i kind of run out of words to describe it because in truth, i just sat there and created something that actually doesn't sound too bad at all. I'm all over the neck and playing better than i ever have, EVER.
It's not fast but with a little practise i think it sounds good and i'm trying to concentrate on phrasing things well.

I've been a bit out of my head on painkillers the last few days so it wasn't until about an hour ago that i really sat down with this and then THAT happened.

I've just sat there and said out loud "Fuck was that me?"

Morgan is helping me with rigging up some kind of video - i've never recorded a thing in my life so this is new as well. So far my phone records excellent picture quality but shit sound, really tinny and trebbly, even when played back through the PC speakers on the laptop you can't EQ it out. I think it's placement of the phone in the room / proximity to the amp but we're working on it with 3 and 4 minute test pieces and i'm using that to learn this song.

I'M LEARNING MY OWN FUCKING SONG !!!!!!....................................THAT I WROTE......................JUST NOW !!!!!

I would put some kind of emoticon here but there just isn't one.

The Neil Young days are OVER !

Nikko

When is the album out?

Alnico

Nikko said:

When is the album out?

2018 by the looks of it !

Nikko

Its ok...I can wait

Barney

Iv never really understood the CAGED system all that well...i have a book so maybe should read up on it again...i know the scales in 5 positions and the fret board notes and root notes of the scales ..is that the same thing ?.. or is CAGED something more