JVM out of action till next week - how shall I arrange these pedals??

Drew_TNBD

I need to play through another amp Thursday night at practice. I almost bought a Blackstar HT-Dual just to cover it, but then a mate loaned me a modded Boss Metal Zone; rofls. It actually doesn't sound as awful as I was expecting. But stacking my gain pedals together sounds a bit crap, and I think maybe I'm doing it wrong. so...



Mainly looking for tips on what to do with my three gain pedals. The amp I'm using is completely clean, so I'll need clean (just the amp) crunchy clean, rhythm crunch, and high-gain crunch. Reckon Boss Metal Zone for the high-gain stuff... OCD for the rhythm crunch, and the RAT for crunchy cleans.

How would you order?

ICBM

Rat > OCD > MZ > EQ, as the "amp". Other pedals as normal - wah before, phaser before or after depending on where you normally put it (front or loop), delay/reverb/weird modulation after.

Dirt pedals usually stack best in order of EQ, to me - most midrangy to most scooped - and often in order of gain - least to most - or at least in order of how much they obliterate the sound of the guitar .

Drew_TNBD

I was thinking to do that kinda thing yeah. Only difference being delays and reverb will be before the distortion pedals, to emulate how I run them with the JVM.

Probably do this then...

Wah > Volume > Tuner > Phaser > Delay 1 > Delay 2 > Reverb > RAT > OCD > MZ > Zoom > Carlsbro PA head

I'm gonna be super pissed if I try this and end up preferring it to a proper amp. 

)

digitalscream

I'd say forget the MZ, and run the RAT and OCD together to get a lead tone (order to preference...).

ICBM

Drew_fx said:

I was thinking to do that kinda thing yeah. Only difference being delays and reverb will be before the distortion pedals, to emulate how I run them with the JVM.

Probably do this then...

Wah > Volume > Tuner > Phaser > Delay 1 > Delay 2 > Reverb > RAT > OCD > MZ > Zoom > Carlsbro PA head

I'm gonna be super pissed if I try this and end up preferring it to a proper amp. 

)

Ha... I once turned up to a gig and found the "Fender Twin" I was told would be there had mysteriously turned into a red-knob, solid-state Fender Princeton Chorus (2x10, 65W/side I think). But I plugged my Mesa V-1 pedal into it and got just about the best low-volume gig sound I've ever had, so much so that I swore I would go and buy a Princeton Chorus. If there had been one for sale that week I'd have done it, but there wasn't and then the memory faded a bit and I never got round to it.

Bidley

digitalscream said:

I'd say forget the MZ, and run the RAT and OCD together to get a lead tone (order to preference...).

This, you can get a beasty hi-gain sound out of a Rat on its own.

EdGrip

You just described using a separate pedal for each gain mode; that's not really stacking. The thing to do here is experiment to see what additive effect one pedal has when run into another. OCD for slight crunch; RAT into OCD for heavier crunch; Metal Zone for, Y'know, metal. Etc

ICBM

Bidley said:

digitalscream said:

I'd say forget the MZ, and run the RAT and OCD together to get a lead tone (order to preference...).

This, you can get a beasty hi-gain sound out of a Rat on its own.

Yes, but you can't get that massively scooped thump-and-buzz metal crunch... you need the MZ - or something with more than a single tone knob, and preferably with the sort of finely adjustable mid control the MZ has, anyway.

Bidley

ICBM said:

Yes, but you can't get that massively scooped thump-and-buzz metal crunch...

If that's what's required, it's a bit niche though!

Drew_TNBD

IMHO, the RAT sounds awful as a high-gain metal tone.

EdGrip

Drew_fx said:

IMHO, the RAT sounds awful as a high-gain metal tone.

Agreed. In fact, I don't really have a lot of love for my RAT in general any more, since I built a Musket Fuzz (muff, basically). It just seems like for any given type of gain, distortion, fuzz, overdrive, marshall-in-a-box, whatever you care to mention, there's another pedal that does it in a more satisfying way than the RAT. I kind of like having it around for old times' sake, but we don't talk much these days.

Gulliver

All the drives on all the time!!

viz

I always put volume as the last pedal in the loop so that it's a master volume not a tone-changer. Also the delays in the loop, or at least after the dirt.

Drew_TNBD

I use it for volume swells and that's about it, so I tend to have it before my reverbs and delays. I was going to use the auto-swell delay on the Zoom in place of it, but I don't think it's going to work.

Drew_TNBD

Just bought meself a Blackstar HT-Dual. I don't really know why, but I've wanted to try one for ages, and now seemed the perfect time!! Met the guy a bit ago and did the trade, so I'll try it out tonight and compare it to the pedals I've already got.

ICBM

It's always worth keeping something like that as a last-ditch backup anyway - you can DI it into the PA if you have no other spare amp available.

digitalscream

ICBM said:

It's always worth keeping something like that as a last-ditch backup anyway - you can DI it into the PA if you have no other spare amp available.

Gotta say...I've tried one, and I vastly preferred my AMT C2. Just a much better-sounding pedal, the cab sim's better, and you can simultaneously run it in pedal mode, preamp mode and cab sim mode.

Drew_TNBD

Well just got back. I was running into my Carlsbro PA head.

It sounded pretty good actually. A little honky in the low-mids which was difficult to dial out but in terms of low-end thump and crisp (but not fizzy) high-end... it was the closest to a valve amp that I've ever heard a distortion pedal do. Better than my Fulltone OCD even.

Very noisy though. I forgot how noisy guitar can be, really spoilt with the JVMJS's noise-gates!!

All in all, it wont replace my amp. But as a backup, it's pretty nifty. Kind of interested to see what it sounds like into the clean channel of my JVM too.

ICBM

digitalscream said:

ICBM said:

It's always worth keeping something like that as a last-ditch backup anyway - you can DI it into the PA if you have no other spare amp available.

Gotta say...I've tried one, and I vastly preferred my AMT C2. Just a much better-sounding pedal, the cab sim's better, and you can simultaneously run it in pedal mode, preamp mode and cab sim mode.

I have to say I prefer my Mesa V-Twin to it as well - and likewise, you can simultaneously use all three outputs. (Although you can't use the Bypass mode into the power amp or PA, perhaps logically.) The Mesa is much more open-sounding and 'resonant', the Blackstar is more midrangy and boxy - which is why I prefer Mesa (Rectifier) amps to Blackstar as well, they have similar characteristics.

I'll have to try the C2. I admit I'd prefer the SS-20 though, if only because of the name .

guitarfishbay

Drew, you should look in to an EHX 44 Magnum.  My backup amp is a HT Dual -> 44 Magnum -> Cab.  It will only drive 8 or 16 ohm cabs (providing most power to 8) but it is loud enough to play with and takes up next to no room.  It has to run from its own PSU though, which is about the same size as the Blackstar one.  I keep both pedals in my spares box with my allen keys, screwdrivers, strings etc.

I've tried the HT dual in to the FX return of my Mesa Roadster and I've got to say I prefer just using it on the clean channel.  It felt a bit dark in to the FX return.

The AMT pedals also look great but they're only two channels which isn't enough for my uses.  If you count bypass as your clean (not fantastic, but it will work) you get 3 when you use the HT dual.  I'd love the Peavey 5150 one for recording though.