What pickup do you use?

menamestom

UST, SBT, Magnetic?  Do you use a preamp?

I need to improve my acoustic amplified tone so looking for ideas on what works for you.....

Lewy

I use the LR Baggs lyric. It's an internal pressure mic that fixes to the bridge plate. IMHO if you want the sound of your guitar but louder then nothing comes close. I go through a Para DI just so I've got adjustability at my feet but the Lyric has its own internal preamp so you don't technically need a separate DI.

ICBM

Fishman AG125 UST plus external Fishman Pro-EQ (when I can get it back from the person I lent it to!), or LR Baggs M1A (has its own preamp and doesn't seem to need external EQ).

Haven't yet bothered using both together, although I probably should.

stickyfiddle

LR Baggs M1A

Super simple and bloody marvellous.

menamestom

Interesting. I've been thinking about the M1 and also the lyric, I currently have a Fishman UST (matrix natural 1) and things appear to have come on from them. I think I want both the natural sound of the lyric with the direct sound of the M1 and the additional bass, but that would be expensive, I bet they would match up nice. @lewy do you find the Lyric needs much Eq or is it pretty much plug and play? Are you the acoustic blues player from MR btw? I'll check the M1 out some more, I could probably wire the passive version into my Fishman endpin preamp.

crunchman

I have too many guitars so I have 4 different systems.

My old acoustic that I've had for years has a Headway undersaddle, which is good.  Sounds as natural as any undersaddle I've heard.  That has an active preamp to go with it.

I have two guitars with Fishman Rare Earth humbuckers.  These have their own sound but I don't think it sounds particularly natural.  I have tried a guitar with the blender version of these (with a mic) and that sounder really good.  The mic seems to add the bits the magnetic misses and it sounds a lot more natural.  They do sound good but they have an slightly electric type of sound.

I have one guitar with a factory fitted Fishman Ellipse Blender.  This is very good and has been my main live acoustic for a number of years but this would cost a lot to get retro-fitted.

I've had K&K pure mini fitted to my most recent acquisition and I have to say I'm very impressed with it.  It has a very natural sound - I'd put it up there with the blender - it's definitely better than the Rare Earth's and the Headway.  It's also passive so you don't have to faff around inside the guitar changing batteries.  It's got enough oomph to go direct without a preamp.

Lewy

menamestom said:

Interesting. I've been thinking about the M1 and also the lyric, I currently have a Fishman UST (matrix natural 1) and things appear to have come on from them. I think I want both the natural sound of the lyric with the direct sound of the M1 and the additional bass, but that would be expensive, I bet they would match up nice. @lewy do you find the Lyric needs much Eq or is it pretty much plug and play? Are you the acoustic blues player from MR btw? I'll check the M1 out some more, I could probably wire the passive version into my Fishman endpin preamp.

Yep, same username as the old MR days

I find the Lyric to be pretty plug and play - the key is taking time to properly set the Lyric's presence control (once set, you just leave it forever but it does affect the sound a lot).

I've gigged with M1a's and Rare Earths and whilst they can sound good on the wound strings I find playing something like a bluegrass lick on the top strings with a flatpick just sounds horrible (to me) - harsh and brittle and nothing like an acoustic guitar. Same with slide - they just sound like a weedy electric DI'd. The Lyric sounds natural enough to make plugging-in something I happily do now rather than only doing begrudgingly as an absolute last resort (and then hating the gig because I hate my guitar sound!).

Check out this video for a very good illustration of the difference between the Lyric and Baggs' top of the range soundhole pickup (M80....said to be even more acoustic sounding than the M1a). The fist guy is using an Anthem (with WAY too much of the UST blended in imho), second guy is using the Lyric and the other two are using M80s :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWWrumsoP8k

 

ICBM

Very good demo.

The Lyric still doesn't sound quite like a mic'ed acoustic - there's still a tiny bit too much snap on the note attack, and it's maybe slightly too bright - but it's by far the closest. I marginally prefer the sound of the M80 in Justin Weaver's Martin - but it does definitely sound slightly like an electric, compared to the Lyric. Andy Reiss actually does sound like Chet Atkins playing electric! (possibly because there seems to be more compression on it).

The Anthem sounds pretty poor by comparison - it has that distinctive piezo UST buzz/zing, very noticeable on note slides.

menamestom

ICBM said:

Very good demo.

The Lyric still doesn't sound quite like a mic'ed acoustic - there's still a tiny bit too much snap on the note attack, and it's maybe slightly too bright - but it's by far the closest. I marginally prefer the sound of the M80 in Justin Weaver's Martin - but it does definitely sound slightly like an electric, compared to the Lyric. Andy Reiss actually does sound like Chet Atkins playing electric! (possibly because there seems to be more compression on it).

The Anthem sounds pretty poor by comparison - it has that distinctive piezo UST buzz/zing, very noticeable on note slides.

I'm actually encouraged by the snap, helps it cut through.  There's a big thread on acoustic guitar forum where some folks say the lyric is not immediate enough and  in a live situation you might not actually want a completely true acoustic sound as it won't cut through so I'm glad it doesn't sound lost.

But it does sound great, things have really come on since I got my last pickup installed 10 years or so ago.

Lewy

menamestom said:

I'm actually encouraged by the snap, helps it cut through.  There's a big thread on acoustic guitar forum where some folks say the lyric is not immediate enough and  in a live situation you might not actually want a completely true acoustic sound as it won't cut through so I'm glad it doesn't sound lost.

But it does sound great, things have really come on since I got my last pickup installed 10 years or so ago.

Well this is a very relevant point - in many cases people aren't looking for a real acoustic guitar sound at all - they want beefed up frequencies here and there, or clearer body percussion, or they want to use .011's and still get a strong sound, or whatever above and beyond what mic'ing an acoustic guitar would give them. So the "your guitar but louder" ideal isn't what everyone wants.

Interesting about the immediacy thing...I've not encountered it even playing quick bluegrass. I figure if Ricky Skaggs uses it and it can keep up with his picking it's probably not a concern for mortals like me

(btw - if you end up looking for an M1a I've got one I'd sell, just as an aside).

Andyjr1515

I have a Shadow Sonic Doubleplay in mine with an under saddle piezo and mixable nano mag just in front of the sound hole. Neither one on their own sounds quite right ref natural 'mic'd' sound, but a mix of the two gets pretty close

Bogwhoppit

Grab yer coat, you've pulled.

menamestom

Unfortunately funds for the lyric needed to be redirected towards something more mundane but as a short term measure I picked up a fishman Neo D Humbucker for £40.  I've just plugged it in and it sounds okay, not very acoustic sounding but pretty balanced and a smooth electric top end.  I'm going to try wiring it into my Fishman Matrix natural preamp for a basic dual source, hopefully each pickup will help mask some of the shortcomings of the other.  If I can stretch to the Lyric at a later date I will and I'd be tempted to keep the magnetic side as it is a nice sound and suits some styles.

Why Fishman insist on moulding the main cable into the pickup, I don't know, a small mini jack would be much more professional.

Monkeybone

Lewy said:

menamestom said:

Interesting. I've been thinking about the M1 and also the lyric, I currently have a Fishman UST (matrix natural 1) and things appear to have come on from them. I think I want both the natural sound of the lyric with the direct sound of the M1 and the additional bass, but that would be expensive, I bet they would match up nice. @lewy do you find the Lyric needs much Eq or is it pretty much plug and play? Are you the acoustic blues player from MR btw? I'll check the M1 out some more, I could probably wire the passive version into my Fishman endpin preamp.

Yep, same username as the old MR days

I find the Lyric to be pretty plug and play - the key is taking time to properly set the Lyric's presence control (once set, you just leave it forever but it does affect the sound a lot).

I've gigged with M1a's and Rare Earths and whilst they can sound good on the wound strings I find playing something like a bluegrass lick on the top strings with a flatpick just sounds horrible (to me) - harsh and brittle and nothing like an acoustic guitar. Same with slide - they just sound like a weedy electric DI'd. The Lyric sounds natural enough to make plugging-in something I happily do now rather than only doing begrudgingly as an absolute last resort (and then hating the gig because I hate my guitar sound!).

Check out this video for a very good illustration of the difference between the Lyric and Baggs' top of the range soundhole pickup (M80....said to be even more acoustic sounding than the M1a). The fist guy is using an Anthem (with WAY too much of the UST blended in imho), second guy is using the Lyric and the other two are using M80s :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWWrumsoP8k

 

I'm in the process of having an Anthem SL installed in my GS Mini, needless to say I will be having much more of the mic in the mix than the first guy had in that video.

thomasross20

Funny I just posted that video in another thread. 

Would love to have the Lyric sound (think it sounds great). 

The second M80 sounded good but still a bit twangy on the treble strings. 

The M1s are so popular.

ICBM

Zombie thread!

Since I posted that above my system has changed - I'm still using the plain un-preamped Fishman UST, but now through an Aura preamp which sounds a lot better than the Pro-EQ. In my main guitar, anyway - my second one has a Baggs Element system which it came fitted with. I don't like it as much as the Fishman, but I haven't got around to replacing it yet.

No longer have the M1A. It wasn't that it sounded bad, but to be honest I never liked the look of it. Shallow, I know .

thomasross20

No I agree - I'm not keen on having anything across the sound hole to be honest...

REALLY like the sound of the Lyric...

From the clips I heard, the element sounded a little unrealistic. 

K&K Mini keeps popping up...

In the Acoutsic Gear thread I linked a page that has sound clips of all the major pups.

Lewy

Well since we're resurrecting this one, I recently switched the Lyric out of my Collings in favour of a K&K Pure Mini because I decided I wanted as little gubbins in that guitar as possible (i.e. battery, preamp etc).

Still got a Lyric in my J45TV though. It suits that guitar really well.

John_P

I've got the lyric in my Emerald acoustic and it sounds fantastic.  very positive comments from the engineers who've mixed live sound as well.     

It feels slightly more susceptible to feedback than a typical under saddle pickup but, it just took a few seconds longer to dial out and could be down to the double neck design and when I upgrade my acoustic board I'll cure that anyway.   

thomasross20

So no major problems regarding feedback from you guys when using the Lyric at loud volume? 

Yep, I keep hearing the K&K Mini is a good 'un but I think the Lyric sounds better? Agree about not wanting too much guff in there. Was it really such a pain having the Lyric and the battery pack etc? 

Lewy

thomasross20;848201" said:

So no major problems regarding feedback from you guys when using the Lyric at loud volume? 

Yep, I keep hearing the K&K Mini is a good 'un but I think the Lyric sounds better? Agree about not wanting too much guff in there. Was it really such a pain having the Lyric and the battery pack etc? 

I wouldn't say pain, but I prefer it now it's not in there.

I agree the Lryic sounds better than anything else. It can be a struggle at volume if you don't have the time to EQ it probably, and you also have to keep in mind that it's a shit-in, shit-out kind of deal.

So if, for example, a lot of players (and sound guys) give a plugged in guitar an artificial bass boost. It's become the sound that is synonymous with a plugged-in acoustic. Trying to replicate that at high volume with the Lyric is likely to push it beyond what it can handle.