Sessionette 75

Sessionman

EricTheWeary said:

It does, thank you. I guess if you were to start tooling up and go into production to make a fully finished combo it would be hard to compete on price against, say, a Peavey made by the thousands in China. This way your investment isn't huge and your customers get a customised product at a reasonable price.

Yes exactly.  But if you make a product that many like, then the price becomes much less of an issue, up to a point.  Players are much better off than they were in the nineteen-eighties!

The PCB takes about an hour to hand assemble using traditional 'through hole' components.  If I was to convert it to surface mount components and the board assembled by 'pick & place' machine... much of it could be done in 1 minute!  The big components still have to be placed by hand of course.  So, manufacturing being competitive in the UK again is really possible.

Conventional 'through hole' components won't be around much longer for general use, but what will be left are likely to get quite expensive as they become more and more redundant.  So, the shift to SMT components will be the only way forward.  Laney have used them extensively for the last five years in their amps (inc valve), along with a few others.  This means often, sending your amp back to the manufacturers for fixing!

Currently, you have to order container loads of amps from China to get a good price!  And then quickly sell them all... a financial risk. This is a dying business model for smaller market like our beloved music industry, which is also highly fashion led.  One reason why the government is promoting UK IT based manufacturing again.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with SMT components.  It's easier to replace the very economically made PCB with a new one if it goes wrong.  This means all the controls are replaced too, which may go wrong at a later time... so where's the problem? 

If an SS amp is well designed and made to run cool, (a lot are not)  it will last for many years.  Heat is the biggest killer of components in all electronic equipment, so I use an aluminium chassis as a big heat sink which dissipates the heat away seven times better than steel does.

The mechanical components will ware out eventually, but I suppose they could be replaced in the traditional way. 

ThePrettyDamned

Yeah, the AMT is a bit metal, but apparently it can do a lot more - that's just where it excels, different strokes etc.  

It's really great to see that you have a real passion - as much as any decent amp builder should have when working on their own kit.  

I really like the idea of buying just a chassis, too.  If it's not a main income thing, it's a nice way of making a few bob without crazy assembly costs

impmann

Just to pick up on something, there Stewart...
You say there's nothing wrong with SMT (I agree to a point) and that you make mention of the cheapness in replacing a failed board.
This is fine and dandy if boards are available - sadly, most musos think of guitar amps as being a non-disposable thing, ie it can always be repaired. If boards have all been used up, and the devices on those boards are either unavailable or required programming in situ on a jig that has long been broken up, then your amp becomes scrap. The cost of respinning a board can run into thousands and therefore the manufacturer isn't likely to foot the bill for that either - and that assumes that you can still get the devices on that board.
This isn't just true of modelling amps, a lot of companies are now slotting digital reverb and effects onto boards inside "valve" amps, and this is fine whilst the boards are available. Fast forward five years after production ends and the situation isn't so great.

ICBM

@Sessionman - interestingly I use an amp mostly thought of as a 'metal' amp (Mesa Trem-o-verb, basically a Dual Rectifier with reverb and tremolo) and I certainly don't play metal! I love the clean, semi-clean and crunch sounds it has as well as the heavier distortion. I'd actually be more inclined to give a solid-state amp intended as a 'metal amp' a try than one intended as a 'blues amp'.

Also a question... in the Blues Baby, why did you choose to use a 'power chip' for the output section? My experience is that they're a cheap and nasty solution, unreliable (despite the claimed protections they have) and average-sounding at best. I've never heard one amp I've really liked the sound of which uses one, and I can't remotely remember how many dead ones I've replaced - probably more than individual power transistors. They seem to have a very 'flat' dynamic response and don't sound as loud as their rated power would suggest. All the solid-state amps I like the sound of use traditional topology with discrete transistors. (And OK, many that I don't!)

It's interesting that Marshall have moved back to discrete-transistor output on the current MG100CFX, after the appalling failure rate on the DFX and AVT series with IC output modules.

I have to say a big part of my interest in the BB evaporated when I saw that.

downbytheriver

There used to be empty Blues Junior cabs on eBay all the time - haven't seen an old one in months! I think I'll have to give in and get a pretty one - I have a BB that has been waiting for a home for months - I want to use it with a jazzy arch top - think it will be ideal.

Sessionman

impmann said:

Just to pick up on something, there Stewart...
You say there's nothing wrong with SMT (I agree to a point) and that you make mention of the cheapness in replacing a failed board.
This is fine and dandy if boards are available - sadly, most musos think of guitar amps as being a non-disposable thing, ie it can always be repaired. If boards have all been used up, and the devices on those boards are either unavailable or required programming in situ on a jig that has long been broken up, then your amp becomes scrap. The cost of respinning a board can run into thousands and therefore the manufacturer isn't likely to foot the bill for that either - and that assumes that you can still get the devices on that board.
This isn't just true of modelling amps, a lot of companies are now slotting digital reverb and effects onto boards inside "valve" amps, and this is fine whilst the boards are available. Fast forward five years after production ends and the situation isn't so great.

I see your point totally.  My answer may seem blunt, it's not intended to be.  Any guitar amp that's not a very basic valve amp will suffer those problems.  We designers don't decide any of the factors you mentioned.

But, even buying a nice expensive amp from a custom valve amp maker, you'll never be certain you can get any of the transformers, if he should die!  What will anyone do then?  Get the nearest available?  It might not then be the same amp any more.

What if, as UL in USA have talked about once already, that they decided to ban valves from all new domestic equipment in USA.  That would be the biggest single market DEAD in the water... what would happen to valve availability with that market demand GONE?

Don't think it won't happen, it can and still might!  Although I hope not.  Nothing is safe any more, with green issues hovering all the time!  When USA coughs... the whole world follows suite!

I'm not so certain your fears are such a big issue... and let's face it, my amps are too simple and economical to let that be a major worry.  My Sessionettes are still going and fixable!  The oldest one is now 33 young and we were told back then they'd never stand the test of time with PCBs in them.  Well....?

Not aiming this at you, but us Brits are pretty good at designing wonderful products and ideas... and then finding a million reasons why we shouldn't make it.  I like change, others don't... I accept that.  No matter what I do, someone will like it or dislike it... my saviour is the part of the market that does like what I do.  I'm happy with that cut... it will NEVER be 100%.... not for anyone!

As I said... I don't mean to sound aggressive, but I am a plain talker! 

Sessionman

ICBM said:

@Sessionman - interestingly I use an amp mostly thought of as a 'metal' amp (Mesa Trem-o-verb, basically a Dual Rectifier with reverb and tremolo) and I certainly don't play metal! I love the clean, semi-clean and crunch sounds it has as well as the heavier distortion. I'd actually be more inclined to give a solid-state amp intended as a 'metal amp' a try than one intended as a 'blues amp'.

Also a question... in the Blues Baby, why did you choose to use a 'power chip' for the output section? My experience is that they're a cheap and nasty solution, unreliable (despite the claimed protections they have) and average-sounding at best. I've never heard one amp I've really liked the sound of which uses one, and I can't remotely remember how many dead ones I've replaced - probably more than individual power transistors. They seem to have a very 'flat' dynamic response and don't sound as loud as their rated power would suggest. All the solid-state amps I like the sound of use traditional topology with discrete transistors. (And OK, many that I don't!)

It's interesting that Marshall have moved back to discrete-transistor output on the current MG100CFX, after the appalling failure rate on the DFX and AVT series with IC output modules.

I have to say a big part of my interest in the BB evaporated when I saw that.

Chip power amps perform as well as you let them.  The trouble is, most amp makers treat them badly in the design by letting them run too hot.

Marshall - they have no idea about those MosFfet power chips!!  They're rated at 100W RMS in hifi/TV applications where the signal is fairly dynamic and never gets distorted!  This means the average power into the load is about 15-20 watts max, clean..

Now, what happens if you stuff distorted guitar into the chip at 50% to full bore power?  It gets very hot indeed.  Those chips are not man enough for that job!  The surface area of the chip is not big enough to get the heat away into the heatsink quick enough, therefore, it bottles up inside the chip and POP!  It's all over!

Forensics - We can see that they'd worked very hard to get the AVT100 to work reliably, because of the existence of the huge heatsink and computer fan tell us so! Huh... because of the small surface area of the chip in contact with the heatsink, that heatsink and fan would NEVER be enough to keep the chip cool!  The heat could not escape quick enough!!  Doh!  100 fans would not help it.  Not even burying the chip in an iceberg.

Now this is the kind of stupidity that gives SS chips a bad name... no matter who makes them.  The actions of one or two 'cheap-skate' high profile guitar amp makers using technology they don't fully understand has led to your generalised opinion.

BluesBaby uses a 68W chip outputting 22 watts into 8 ohms.  It's mounted onto an alli chassis which dissipates heat 7x faster than steal!  That chip barely gets hot at all.

Golden Rule... Heat kills components!  If I was to allow that chip to reach 100°C, then it would die in a few years or even sooner.  Keeping it cool will enable it work for many, many, many years without fail.  Well, there might be the odd failure, but they would be very rare.

Car manufacturers can calculate the date of death of voltage regulators in alternators.  The voltage regulator manufacturers supply a chart to work it out by the temperature you let it them at.

The guitar amp industry is widely known to cut corners in this country with such matters.  Fender don't.  Their stuff is always designed to be reliable and they never push their ratings.  The old Marshall 8040 40W amp, with a discreet output stage, only outputs 28 watts into an 8 ohm resistive load... so where did they get the 40W rating from?  Beats me...!!!  With that and the inefficient cheap Celestion speaker, it might explain the basis of the 'transistor watts quieter than valve watts' fable?

OK, these are messages 'from the other side', explanations you don't ever hear.  This is partly why I signed up to TFB.  I wanted to represent SS and help build a better image for it.  Its constant slagging is unfair, without a right of reply.

Sorry you lost interest in BluesBaby... but that the way it goes.  But then, it clearly is not your kind of amp... as much as I would find your amp horrendous too.  But that's not because either are SS or valve - it's because they designed differently by different people who like different sounds!  Simplz Egor!

sweepy

In the depths of whats left of my memory I seem to remember a low wattage valve combo from Session about the same time the Sessionette came out, iirc it was covered in the same grey carpet/fabric too

jpfamps

But, even buying a nice expensive amp from a custom valve amp maker, you'll never be certain you can get any of the transformers, if he should die!  What will anyone do then?  Get the nearest available?  It might not then be the same amp any more.

What if, as UL in USA have talked about once already, that they decided to ban valves from all new domestic equipment in USA.  That would be the biggest single market DEAD in the water... what would happen to valve availability with that market demand GONE?

Don't think it won't happen, it can and still might!  Although I hope not.  Nothing is safe any more, with green issues hovering all the time!  When USA coughs... the whole world follows suite!

I'm not so certain your fears are such a big issue... and let's face it, my amps are too simple and economical to let that be a major worry.  My Sessionettes are still going and fixable!  The oldest one is now 33 young and we were told back then they'd never stand the test of time with PCBs in them.  Well....?

Not aiming this at you, but us Brits are pretty good at designing wonderful products and ideas... and then finding a million reasons why we shouldn't make it. 

To respond to the points above.

I've found well specified transformers to generally be very reliable components. I've repaired loads (ie several 100s) of Fender amps from the 60's and 70's and rarely had to replace a transformer. Modern materials mean that should be able to make better transformers than where made in the 60's. Furthermore, there are plenty of transformer manufacturers who could make you a replacement part in the event of a transformer death.

UL may indeed have looked into banning valves, however I don't think that the US has great history of pushing a "green" agenda (their generally attitude to RoHS is that it's some form of commie European conspiracy).

Most older amps can be repaired (not always the case for modern class D amps etc). I have repaired several Sessionette amps; however their very low resale value often makes anything except a relatively simple repair borderline as to whether it's economically worth while. Given that at some stage the electrolytic caps will need changing, it;s unlikely that this would be an economic repair.

Regarding British manufacturing, we are very innovative, but in my opinion the products have often been let down by poor cosmetics, and  penny pinching on a small significant aspects of the product.

Sessionman

downbytheriver said:

There used to be empty Blues Junior cabs on eBay all the time - haven't seen an old one in months! I think I'll have to give in and get a pretty one - I have a BB that has been waiting for a home for months - I want to use it with a jazzy arch top - think it will be ideal.

Wow, thanks for your support!  Have you tried it yet into an 8 ohm speaker cab? 

It sounds great with my ES-175 and Gretsch Anniversary!  My favourite guitar into it, is my 1971 Les Paul Deluxe, with the mini humbuckers.  They're a really kick-ass cross between standard HBs and P-90s.  Such an under-rated LP version!

We did buy four BJr cabinets off ebay some time ago before BB went onto the market... but not since.  We don't want to compete for them with our customers.

ICBM

Sessionman said:

Chip power amps perform as well as you let them.  The trouble is, most amp makers treat them badly in the design by letting them run too hot.Marshall - they have no idea about those MosFfet power chips!!  They're rated at 100W RMS in hifi/TV applications where the signal is fairly dynamic and never gets distorted!  This means the average power into the load is about 15-20 watts max, clean..Now, what happens if you stuff distorted guitar into the chip at 50% to full bore power?  It gets very hot indeed.  Those chips are not man enough for that job!  The surface area of the chip is not big enough to get the heat away into the heatsink quick enough, therefore, it bottles up inside the chip and POP!  It's all over!Forensics - We can see that they'd worked very hard to get the AVT100 to work reliably, because of the existence of the huge heatsink and computer fan tell us so! Huh... because of the small surface area of the chip in contact with the heatsink, that heatsink and fan would NEVER be enough to keep the chip cool!  The heat could not escape quick enough!!  Doh!  100 fans would not help it.  Not even burying the chip in an iceberg.Now this is the kind of stupidity that gives SS chips a bad name... no matter who makes them.  The actions of one or two 'cheap-skate' high profile guitar amp makers using technology they don't fully understand has led to your generalised opinion.BluesBaby uses a 68W chip outputting 22 watts into 8 ohms.  It's mounted onto an alli chassis which dissipates heat 7x faster than steal!  That chip barely gets hot at all.Golden Rule... Heat kills components!  If I was to allow that chip to reach 100°C, then it would die in a few years or even sooner.  Keeping it cool will enable it work for many, many, many years without fail.  Well, there might be the odd failure, but they would be very rare.Car manufacturers can calculate the date of death of voltage regulators in alternators.  The voltage regulator manufacturers supply a chart to work it out by the temperature you let it them at.The guitar amp industry is widely known to cut corners in this country with such matters.  Fender don't.  Their stuff is always designed to be reliable and they never push their ratings.  The old Marshall 8040 40W amp, with a discreet output stage, only outputs 28 watts into an 8 ohm resistive load... so where did they get the 40W rating from?  Beats me...!!!  With that and the inefficient cheap Celestion speaker, it might explain the basis of the 'transistor watts quieter than valve watts' fable?OK, these are messages 'from the other side', explanations you don't ever hear.  This is partly why I signed up to TFB.  I wanted to represent SS and help build a better image for it.  Its constant slagging is unfair, without a right of reply.Sorry you lost interest in BluesBaby... but that the way it goes.  But then, it clearly is not your kind of amp... as much as I would find your amp horrendous too.  But that's not because either are SS or valve - it's because they designed differently by different people who like different sounds!  Simplz Egor!

I certainly agree with a lot of that!

I haven't entirely lost interest in the Blues Baby... just had it dented a bit . I haven't yet heard a power chip amp I really like the sound of, even when they don't die, but I could possibly be proved wrong...

I completely agree with you about those AVT and MG Marshalls with the fans - I won't even accept them for repair any more if the fault is anything to do with the power module, because they cannot be guaranteed and it reflects badly on me if they die again. And the 8040 is certainly an example of creative spec'ing with a crap speaker! Although I think it sounds pretty good with a decent one. Using poor speakers is one of my pet hates, as I know it is for you - they (and other companies) do it in many of their valve models too. And poor quality cabinets...

Sessionman

ICBM said:

I completely agree with you about those AVT and MG Marshalls with the fans - I won't even accept them for repair any more if the fault is anything to do with the power module, because they cannot be guaranteed and it reflects badly on me if they die again. And the 8040 is certainly an example of creative spec'ing with a crap speaker! Although I think it sounds pretty good with a decent one. Using poor speakers is one of my pet hates, as I know it is for you - they (and other companies) do it in many of their valve models too. And poor quality cabinets...I don't do repairs much, but if I did, my policy would be the same!

My policy would be the same if I did repairs much.

ragingben

Sessionman;196791" said:

Just listened to the AMT amp clips!!  Ho, ho, what a noise!  METAL!  Not my cup of tea AT ALL!!!But great for the genre they aiming at... into a closed back 4 x12" which naturally resonate at open A - 5th string!!

It does crunch exceptionally well too. In the demos you usually hear the Lead 2 channel which is the 'metal channel' but it does so much more,I've gigged mine a bit and have found it covers a lot of ground very comfortably

richielux

I love the notion of a "marmite" you couldn't make it up if you tried, thought of many things to describe the plethora of music gear i have gone through over 30 years and food never came up perhaps after it had gone through the colon starts with"S" ands in "T".
with regards to the sessionette I can only say that there are good tones to be had, but not without some patience setting the amp up for whatever venue or studio performance. I used to have a rockette in the eighties and loved the bird to bits even shoehorned a EV force 10" speaker in that sweetened the sound even more. fast forward clock 30 years and pick up a sessionette 75 bog standard stock in grey carpet,.... and oh boy it sounds soooo sweet on the clean with all my electrics it has this polished treble that i just cant get out of my fender 75 tube amp, even with the bright switch on. Using an old guyatone TD-1 tube distortion on the sessionette gives me all the drive i need plus a nice crunch using the sessionette channel blend option. The drummer always complains for pointing her (the amp) to close to his snare drum,....haha. I agree with people that the sessionette is build to a budget dont have a single top on the knobs anymore, but hey were talking of 1983 when this lass left the factory in Brittain, hey all my valve amps have had fortunes spend since then, this little box is still Rocking from new. So yes it was build to a budget but with a lot of care and consideration for the end user, Mr sessionman is still here for you should you need his service were talking over 30 years here man! thats commitment to a product and not something you can say today very often.

__Tim__

richielux said:

Mr sessionman is still here for you should you need his service

Well... I ordered a spare power amp for my Sessionette 75 from award-session in december. The money was booked instantly, but no parts were delivered. There was absolutely no reply to email or mail. Very disappointing! Now I am waiting for a back-payment... So much about my experience with his service.
Finally I fixed my Sessionette the "SMP Artizan"-way (using a inexpensive and powerful L15-D power amp).

xsheq

I had a Sessionette 75 for years and it was my main gigging amp. It never let me down. However, it also didn't really do terrific, dynamic sound in the way a decent tube amp would. I never recorded with it, and I sold mine just this year. They do loud for little money.

rsvmark

Still got mine. A Mk II version (Black tolex cover) and might just take it out for a spin this evening. Bought new in 85 or 86 and still working. Used to gig with 4x10 cab as extension to alleviate the unidirectional nature of it and provide spread when not mic'd up. Foot switch long since lost.

Didn't realise you could blend the channels though.....how do you do that?

57Deluxe

/\

@rsvmark why not ask @Sessionman - Trevor designed and built them!

impmann

57Deluxe said:

/\

@rsvmark why not ask @Sessionman - Trevor designed and built them!

Stewart, even...

Blending the channels - stick the three way switch on the amp in the mid position...

Philly_Q

impmann said:

Blending the channels - stick the three way switch on the amp in the mid position...

I was going to say that, but couldn't quite remember if it was true, since my Sessionette 75 died some years ago.  I've still got it though, under a thick layer of (protective?) dust.

I remember having intermittent problems with that channel selection switch, it would sometimes make very loud popping noises in use.