What is this chord?

RandallFlagg

E|--1--

B|--3--

G|--0--

D|--2--

A|--0--

E|--1--

I wrote in a piece that ran:

E|--1--1--1--1--1--1--

B|--3--3--3--3--3--3--

G|--0--0--2--0--0--2--

D|--2--0--0--0--2--0--

A|--3--2-----2--0-----

E|-----------3--1-----

I pick the notes arpeggio and that F something chord sound so dramatic and really jarring on it's own but when resolved to the Dmin it makes real sense.

I wrote this may years ago and was really proud but always wonders what the chord was called and I don't recall hearing it before in any tracks I listen to

mike_l

A7add4add6(no3rd)/F
Depending on context.

stratman3142

It could be thought of as Fmaj13.

stratman3142

mike_l said:

A7add4add6(no3rd)/F
Depending on context.

There's an F on top not an F#, so the 6th (or 13) is flattened. So considering it as an A/F type chord I think it might be A7add4 addb13 (no 3rd)/F but I've never heard of one of those .

RandallFlagg

I like the sound of this: A7add4 addb13 (no 3rd)/F...!!

mart

stratman3142 said:

It could be thought of as Fmaj13.

Or Fmaj9sus4, I think.

Edit: scrub that, I'm being an idiot.

mike_l

stratman3142 said:

mike_l said:

A7add4add6(no3rd)/F
Depending on context.

There's an F on top not an F#, so the 6th (or 13) is flattened. So considering it as an A/F type chord I think it might be A7add4 addb13 (no 3rd)/F but I've never heard of one of those .

Could be, I was half asleep and trying to figure it out in my caffeine lacking head.

paul_c2

Having written the notes down, its tempting to label it an F chord, because 1) there's 2 Fs in it and 2) its the lowest note - so you could say its F, rather than some other inversion. So....F13 of some kind. It could also be labelled Dm11 based on the notes. But really, its not a conventional chord based on thirds (labelling a chord a 13th is a cop out - up to the 13th note means all 7 notes of the scale are in there). Neither is it a polychord, nor a tone cluster. Guitars can't physically do tone clusters, since they're defined as a close spacing of notes closer than a third. But its very similar to a tone cluster. The notes are D E F G A.

RandallFlagg

So have I invented the guitar chord to end all guitar chords?

It has to be played with thumb wrapper. How do I patent it?


Have any of you played it what do you think?

paul_c2

RandallFlagg said:

So have I invented the guitar chord to end all guitar chords?

It has to be played with thumb wrapper. How do I patent it?


Have any of you played it what do you think?

I've played it, it has no discernable tonal centre so this can be influenced by the preceding music - which defines it as F. I'd say its as near-as-dammit a tone cluster.

mike_l

stratman3142 said:

mike_l said:

A7add4add6(no3rd)/F
Depending on context.

There's an F on top not an F#, so the 6th (or 13) is flattened. So considering it as an A/F type chord I think it might be A7add4 addb13 (no 3rd)/F but I've never heard of one of those .

Maybe Am as a base would have been better, although the no 3rd does negate the major/minor debate.

RandallFlagg

If you want to hear it in action, check this track from a band I was in many moons years ago, in 1989. That chord it at 25s:

viz

Before trying to fit a single description to the notes, I personally think it's appropriate to try and understand it in its musical context. Once you establish the chords' roots it becomes clear that it's not a single chord but a polychord, ie two chords stacked one on top of the other. Here's how it works: 

The song is in d minor. D Dorian in fact because of the B naturals throughout. In Dorian you get a major 6th, so the IV chord has a major 3rd, as well as a minor 7th (it's built on the mixolydian scale). 

So. After the 3rd chord, the top 3 strings progress from d minor (2nd inv) to G7 (no 3rd) with that change from A to G on the 3rd string. Despite the lack of a 3rd in the upper register, that's that major IV chord - it's a G major with a minor 7th. Reinforced by the bottom 2 strings which are also playing G and B. At this point you've played a i-IV. 

While the upper register stays put, the lower register then moves down a tone and plays F major, the III chord. On my phone I can only hear the bottom two strings - the F and A of the F major (no 5th). I can't quite hear the E on that fret 2 of the D string that you've written, but if it's there that would make it an Fmaj7 (no 5th). 

So in summary the best way to describe it is that it's a polychord of an F major with a G7 on the top, or the III and IV7 chords stacked and played simultaneously, within a D dorian song. Although this might seem clumsier than naming all the notes in a single chord, it does show the purpose of the notes better and is a more musical approach - IMO, of course! It would be written:


G7 (no 3rd)
_________
F (no 5th)



Or:


G7 (no 3rd)
_________
Fmaj7 (no 5th)



Or, more simply but not as precisely:


G7
_
F





The clash created by playing III and IV simultaneously is indeed interesting and gives a good, dark flavour.

Whistler

The name depends on which note you wish to call the root. These are my thoughts:

D F A - E G = Dm add9 add11, 1st inversion

F A - E G - D = Fmaj13

G - D F A - E = Gsus2 add 13, 3rd inversion

E G - D F A = E11, 4th inversion

A - E G - D F = Asus4 add13, 7th inversion

Edit: corrected as per bigjon and stratman314, below.

bigjon

Whistler said:

The name depends on which note you wish to call the root. These are my thoughts:

D F A - E G = Dm add9 add11, 1st inversion

F A - E G - D = F9 add 13

G - D F A - E = Gsus2 add 13, 3rd inversion

E G - D F A = E11, 4th inversion

A - E G - D F = Asus4 add13

Should be Fmaj9add13 not F9add13

stratman3142

bigjon said:

Whistler said:

The name depends on which note you wish to call the root. These are my thoughts:

D F A - E G = Dm add9 add11, 1st inversion

F A - E G - D = F9 add 13

G - D F A - E = Gsus2 add 13, 3rd inversion

E G - D F A = E11, 4th inversion

A - E G - D F = Asus4 add13

Should be Fmaj9add13 not F9add13

I thought that it was implicit that a 13th also includes the 9th, so isn't Fmaj9add13 = Fmaj13.
However, in theory I think the 13th would also include an 11th, so maybe Fmaj9add13 gives a more precise definition.

I always been a bit confused about 13th chords supposedly including the 11th, because that's not my experience in practice.

Whistler

bigjon, thank you, E is indeed the major 7th, not the dominant 7th of F. However ...

stratman3142 is correct, a 13th chord must have the 7th but the 5th, 9th and 11 can be omitted, thus the chord is Fmaj13.

viz

stratman3142 said:

bigjon said:

Whistler said:

The name depends on which note you wish to call the root. These are my thoughts:

D F A - E G = Dm add9 add11, 1st inversion

F A - E G - D = F9 add 13

G - D F A - E = Gsus2 add 13, 3rd inversion

E G - D F A = E11, 4th inversion

A - E G - D F = Asus4 add13

Should be Fmaj9add13 not F9add13

I thought that it was implicit that a 13th also includes the 9th, so isn't Fmaj9add13 = Fmaj13.
However, in theory I think the 13th would also include an 11th, so maybe Fmaj9add13 gives a more precise definition.

I always been a bit confused about 13th chords supposedly including the 11th, because that's not my experience in practice.

You're quite right @Stratman3142, because in this key the 4th would be augmented if it were there at all (which it wouldn't be, and indeed isn't!)