75dB Volume Level

gubble

So we are having to cancel a gig this Friday because the venue (a lovely pub who are not to blame) have been told the noise level for a band cannot exceed 75dB.

Now I've worked with noise limiters many times and never had a problem. As a band we can go quieter and louder - but a live band with a drummer can't really go down to that level practically can they? At 75dB the people in the pub are going to be louder than the band.

The council were there last week and they stipulated 75dB in the venue and outside you should not be able to hear the band to recognise the song they are playing.

As much as we'd like the money and the fun that comes with playing live we genuinely don't think we could go that low. A single snare hit is going to be above that and to be honest our singer unamplified is probably above that (she's got a great loud voice).

Anyone else had a dB limit this low?

EricTheWeary

We could do that gig, even people in the venue can't recognise what we are playing...

Done a couple like that but the venues have agreed with the council for bands to be finished by a certain time, only turn the limiter on after the curfew.

ESBlonde

'Cant recognise the song' is not a measurable quantity and certainly couldn't be upheld in a court of law.
You need to know and understand the definition of 75dB (what weight will be applied) and where it will be measured (typically at the property boundry for this type of thing).
As you point out an average crowd of drinkers are going to bust that limit inside the pub without any instrumentation whatsoever. In lots of the holiday resorts around europe the premises must be pretty soundproof and only the occasional opening of the external doors lets the noise out. It can be made to work but internally the pub will be noisy, as long as H&S protection is offered to the staff the upper limits are less critical.

P.S.
Accourding to a source I found on the interwebs. Chamber music in a small auditorium will register 75-85dB A Violin goes from 82dB to 92dB a telephone dial tone is 80dB
see here:
http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.html

So having a 'band' at 75dB is a complete nonesense and needs a better definition.

ICBM

I doubt you could do an acoustic gig with brushed drums under those conditions, let alone a rock band.

Edinburgh is set to bring in similarly stupid limits. I used to live above a pub, so I'm not unaware that excessive noise can be a problem, but I chose to live there...

maltingsaudio

75db sounds to me like someone has a wire crossed thats a ridiculous figure to be bandying about. I would expect it to be that outside the venue and even then only measure it when there's no traffic.   You need to see the letter they have been given to understand what the councils on about, where the readings have to be taken ect.

RocknRollDave

I think it is basically a local council banning live music in the venue but without the hassle of actually banning it, so the venue has no real comeback.

BahHumbug

I did a gig earlier this year with I think a 95dB limit, enforced by an automatic device which cut the power.  We didn't get our power cut, but the punters in the club were louder than us.

stratman3142

I still carry a 30M extension lead.

In a band a few years back I remember a pub manager asked us to drape it over a fence so we could plug into a socket in the house next door.

gubble

RocknRollDave said:

I think it is basically a local council banning live music in the venue but without the hassle of actually banning it, so the venue has no real comeback.

It's exactly this from what I can gather.

Spoke to the landlady who confirmed there's one (new) neighbour who is complaining about the noise. The council have been round for the past few weeks whilst bands are on and have measured the sound. Stopping the band if they're too loud. She's also been measuring the sound and agrees that 75dB is far too quiet.

The pub is next to a railway station and the train noise outside the pub is louder than 75dB - I wonder if he's complained about that?

So we've cancelled and I gather they're now cancelling all bands from now on. Huge shame as it was a great venue to play.

bbill335

This really boils my piss. 

David5150

Smashing at my keyboard to say 75 db is a daft limit is louder than 75db

RocknRollDave

gubble said:

RocknRollDave said:

I think it is basically a local council banning live music in the venue but without the hassle of actually banning it, so the venue has no real comeback.

It's exactly this from what I can gather.

Spoke to the landlady who confirmed there's one (new) neighbour who is complaining about the noise. The council have been round for the past few weeks whilst bands are on and have measured the sound. Stopping the band if they're too loud. She's also been measuring the sound and agrees that 75dB is far too quiet.

The pub is next to a railway station and the train noise outside the pub is louder than 75dB - I wonder if he's complained about that?

So we've cancelled and I gather they're now cancelling all bands from now on. Huge shame as it was a great venue to play.

In my view, a large number of people enjoying music that ends at a reasonable time (say 11pm) at a venue once or twice a week should be given priority over one person who complains.

If a venue makes no effort to contain or curtail the music beyond reasonable boundaries (e.g. insisting on closed doors/ windows whilst music is playing, music not blaring out into the early hours) AND it is generating numerous complaints from numerous residents, that is of course a different matter.

I guess it would be too much for a local council to use a bit of common sense and discretion.....

RocknRollDave

PS Would I be correct in thinking that a venue that has a 75dB limiter still needs an entertainment licence.....?

Do I sense a council cashing in here.......?

Win/ Win for the council - they placate the moaner AND still get the licence money from the venue.

ICBM

gubble said:

Spoke to the landlady who confirmed there's one (new) neighbour who is complaining about the noise.

The 'agent of change' rule for things like this *really* needs to be brought in.

gubble

Well the landlady and agent have both been back today and really want us to play.

They are moving where the band is to the other side of the pub into an alcove bit and we are going to work with the landlady (!) to find a reasonable level.

At the end of the day we've agreed to turn up and play to the best of our abilities at the lowest volume we can with an acoustic drum kit. If it's still too loud we get paid and go home.

Whistler

Acoustic drums kick out around 100dbA and then the band will increase that by a bit. Your best hope is that you will be far enough from the meter as sound drops by 6db for every doubling of the distance. A drop of 6db is half the volume because decibels are measured on a logarithmic scale.

ESBlonde

Whistler said:

Acoustic drums kick out around 100dbA and then the band will increase that by a bit. Your best hope is that you will be far enough from the meter as sound drops by 6db for every doubling of the distance. A drop of 6db is half the volume because decibels are measured on a logarithmic scale.

This, and also the location of the reading. Again this is typically at the boundry of the property. This can be troublesome if the wall behind the band is a party wall to the complainants flat.

Plectrum

A plan B might be to take a cajon as well as the drum kit.

ICBM

A 'Flats' drum kit is very good for this sort of thing - although they're still acoustic drums, they're quite a bit quieter and with less thump than a standard kit. Also cheap, easy to transport and useful for practicing. My old drummer had a set which we used for semi-acoustic gigs, she much preferred it to the electronic kit she had. You may also need deliberately cheap cymbals to reduce the volume and sustain.

PolarityMan

The silence between our songs is probably 75db

cj73

Can't vouch for the accuracy but this example of 75db made me chuckle.

http://www.noisehelp.com/noise-level-chart.html