1980's Shift Tremelo System/Washburn Wonderbar - remember them ?

guitars4you

A post from @miserneil has just reminded me - can any one actually recall the Shift trem system - as I recall totally flat mounting and no rear access required and again top mounting only for the top nut - spongy feel and sucked the tone like nothing I've heard before or since - They weren't cheap - back in the 80's I recal something like £150/170 - Can't quite recall why the Washburn Wonderbar connection

Big questions is does @HarrySeven have one or a guitar that is factory fitted with one

WezV

As mentioned in that thread, I had one on a guitar I got for a good price.  Sold the teem on for a very good price.  

Worked well, but kinda heavy in use, and a metric ton in weight

the lock nut was the weak link.

the first few pics on google are mine

Bridgehouse

Always felt like it had an extra 'f' to me..

guitars4you

@WezV  - just spent a few minutes on google and found a recent-ish e-bay sale at £150

somewhere at the back of a fading memory bank I recall they where designed and/or built by  a camera company

At least if I see a used guitar again with 'old holes' that no longer appear to have  a purpose I can think Shift 2001

Sassafras

guitars4you said:

A post from @miserneil has just reminded me - can any one actually recall the Shift trem system - as I recall totally flat mounting and no rear access required and again top mounting only for the top nut - spongy feel and sucked the tone like nothing I've heard before or since - They weren't cheap - back in the 80's I recal something like £150/170 - Can't quite recall why the Washburn Wonderbar connection

Big questions is does @HarrySeven have one or a guitar that is factory fitted with one

One?
You underestimate Harry. He's probably got at least a dozen of them.

WezV

the suffer from the same fate as Kahlers - originally sold as an easy replacement but actually need more work than that.  most experiences of them are bad because they were not an optimal setup

Okay, a kahler needs routing and there is no getting away from that, but it also needs a fairly specific neck angle to get the most out of it, so you either need to shim the neck or recess the whole trem

this is similar, even with the big rollers you need the saddles high for the best experience

ICBM

Bridgehouse said:

Always felt like it had an extra 'f' to me..

Beat me to it .

They were a brilliant idea in theory - not only not involving routing (although there are still two screw holes in the body and four in the headstock, so still non-reversible) - but capable of an interesting trick… if you set them up just right, you can get them to bend a chord in tune, because the second set of saddles at the back adjust how much each string detunes by, like a Steinberger Transtrem does.

Although whether you actually want that in practice is a different question - it makes the guitar sound more like it has a synth pitch-bend on it rather than a 'trem' - which all sound different on guitar exactly because they cause different amounts of relative detuning.

They do also massively suck tone and sustain.

From memory they use some sort of torsion spring inside that barrel arrangement under the rear saddles, but I can't remember for sure. I've never tried taking one apart, I suspect it might not be a very good idea!

WezV

I didn't find it as accurate as a trans trem, but then a trans trem doesn't seem very accurate when you put it through a Peterson.

I learned my lesson, setting up a TransTrem on a strobe tuner will drive you to madness

guitars4you

WezV said:

the suffer from the same fate as Kahlers - originally sold as an easy replacement but actually need more work than that.  most experiences of them are bad because they were not an optimal setup

Okay, a kahler needs routing and there is no getting away from that, but it also needs a fairly specific neck angle to get the most out of it, so you either need to shim the neck or recess the whole trem

this is similar, even with the big rollers you need the saddles high for the best experience

I recall seeing a few on Explorers, Vs and other flat bodied based guitars and even the odd Strat - but guitar players not wanting to rout a body to fit a Floyd,  went with them for easy fitting etc - Yes I'm responsible for selling a few in the 80;s in my old hunting ground in Derby

still trying to find on google any guitar that was factory fitted with one

WezV

guitars4you said:

WezV said:

the suffer from the same fate as Kahlers - originally sold as an easy replacement but actually need more work than that.  most experiences of them are bad because they were not an optimal setup

Okay, a kahler needs routing and there is no getting away from that, but it also needs a fairly specific neck angle to get the most out of it, so you either need to shim the neck or recess the whole trem

this is similar, even with the big rollers you need the saddles high for the best experience

I recall seeing a few on Explorers, Vs and other flat bodied based guitars and even the odd Strat - but guitar players not wanting to rout a body to fit a Floyd,  went with them for easy fitting etc - Yes I'm responsible for selling a few in the 80;s in my old hunting ground in Derby

still trying to find on google any guitar that was factory fitted with one

I will blame you for the bad rep around here then, since I am in Burton

guitars4you

WezV said:

guitars4you said:

I recall seeing a few on Explorers, Vs and other flat bodied based guitars and even the odd Strat - but guitar players not wanting to rout a body to fit a Floyd,  went with them for easy fitting etc - Yes I'm responsible for selling a few in the 80;s in my old hunting ground in Derby

I will blame you for the bad rep around here then, since I am in Burton

I know - and I do recall a regular B.O.T. customer fitting one but can't recall his name

WezV

Let's just say I have never seen one of these or a Kahler set with the saddles high enough.  If you ignore the bottom half of the saddles adjustment they start to sound and perform much better.  

ICBM

WezV said:

I didn't find it as accurate as a trans trem, but then a trans trem doesn't seem very accurate when you put it through a Peterson.

I learned my lesson, setting up a TransTrem on a strobe tuner will drive you to madness

That's true. I always found them better for getting an approximation of a normal trem anyway - that perfectly in-tune chord-bend thing is just not rock'n'roll .

WezV

Although the shift lock nut is a pile of crap, which is why I sold mine with a period correct kahler nut.  Still a bad design if the middle lock sits over a truss rod channel, but better than the shift and not as intrusive as a floyd but.

robgilmo

Reminds me of a 1960's Jag I've been working on, the same kind of massive, chunky 'hit it with a big hammer' type engineering.

HarrySeven

guitars4you said:

A post from @miserneil has just reminded me - can any one actually recall the Shift trem system - as I recall totally flat mounting and no rear access required and again top mounting only for the top nut - spongy feel and sucked the tone like nothing I've heard before or since - They weren't cheap - back in the 80's I recal something like £150/170 - Can't quite recall why the Washburn Wonderbar connection

Big questions is does @HarrySeven have one or a guitar that is factory fitted with one

Not at the moment, but I did have a short while ago!

ADP

I've got one that I took off a Roland G-303 recently. From the look of things, the previous owner had spent more time modifying the guitar than playing it and then put it away. I just wish he'd kept the original parts.

Strangefan

I gigged with one for years, I found l it great and really smooth, Washburn has them factory fitted on a few guitars, but not sure of any other manufacturers.

impmann

I've owned two guitars with these... the first was a Washburn shreddy thing that I took in part ex about 20 years ago. It wasn't my bag of spanners, so I moved it on pretty quick but the trem was OK for what it was.

I had another about six or seven years ago - this time a twin humbucker Tele with one of these retro-fitted. Time isn't kind to these... the threaded section where the trem arm screwed in had gone very baggy, meaning the arm clonked about and something to do with the pivot was worn meaning the return to pitch was woefull. It was so shit, that I removed it from the guitar and fitted a top-loading fixed bridge in its place. I sold the trem unit on eBay, saying it was fubar for £75... I was stunned, even more stunned that the buyer paid the postage to California...

Bucket

The elephant in the room seems to me that it is also quite simply the ugliest thing ever. An abomination.

Even worse than a Bigsby.

ICBM

Bucket said:

The elephant in the room seems to me that it is also quite simply the ugliest thing ever. An abomination.

Except on a very specific guitar…

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/2b/f7/f0/2bf7f00a43dd67ae0a7656bfbb60f281.jpg

It gives it a real 'rocket' vibe somehow and looks great. On anything else, I probably agree with you .